NATURE’S CORNER NEWSLETTER
 Clyde’s Corner
WERE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS BLACK OR WHITE ?
This question very often, quickly becomes muddled in confusion. Both Ancient and Modern Egyptians were/are Arab Semitic White (65% of Egypt’s population) as shall be demonstrated shortly. The “Hamitic theory” has been proven wrong and outdated by DNA(haploid testing) as well as anthropological testing. The Hamites have been described from the whole spectrum of Black to White(both Semitic and Indo European Aryan) to any admixture. About 30% is Black(mostly Nubian, some Nilotic), Black/Arab admixture-the Berbers and Moors are essentially Arabs with 8-15% Black heritage, and 5% all other ethnicities. The confusion comes about because Afro centrists want to claim the Black Nubians/people of Kemet were Ancient Egyptians. Ancient Nubia encompassed the lower Southwestern corner of present day Egypt (annexed in 1520 B.C.), the remainder being present day Sudan. Additionally, there were Black Nubian Pharaohs for an extremely short time frame from 800 – 700 B.C.. Many of the Pharaohs do exhibit admixture – Black/ Arab mix as would be expected when two or more ethnicities are in close contact. Interestingly, National Geographic sponsored three professional team – American, Egyptian, and French to produce busts from x- rays of King Tut’s mummy. The Egyptians and French were told whom they were working on, the Americans were not. Remarkably, the three teams came up with very similar looking busts, all three claiming King Tut was Caucasian: I will part with the experts here. My opinion is, King Tut appears of mixed Black/Arab heritage for the following reasons-he demonstrates a pronounced external occipital protuberance producing the egg-shaped head from a side profile, almond shaped eyes, pronounced high cheek bones, scoop shoveled, teeth, and, slightly fuller lips than most Caucasian – all Black features. He demonstrates a high forehead, pronounced, narrow nose, lips thinner than the average Black, oval head structure from a front profile, and a recessed jaw (most Blacks exhibit non medical prognathism – jaw slightly pronounced) – White features. In drawing, statues, and busts, he is portrayed any where from medium brown to Black. He was probably of the exact same heritage as Anwar Sadat – Egyptian Arab Semitic White father-Sudanese/ Nubian/ Kemet mother-he denied this until shortly before his death. He always claimed Arab Semitic White.The Coptics where Christians of all ethnicities in Egypt. Generally, Arabs have an olive colored(golden brown) skin tone and dark hair and eyes. About 20% fall in the Gamut of Northern Europeans, UNMIXED. In a climate like Egypt, sun exposure can make Arabs even darker. Egyptian wall drawings portray many ethnicities as exhibited by different skin tones and facial features.
Incidentally, for those who claim Cleopatra was Black, thousands of busts, drawings, paintings, and other likenesses(i.e.-coins) of her, along with written descriptions of her, from that time period, exist.One look and you can tell she is NOT Black(did not say she was Semitic White/White either – she is Greek(Indo European Aryan White), but definitely, not all, if any, Black either), although she may possibly have some Black ancestry. Her half sister was half White (Greek) – half Black.
    Busts of Cleopatra from her time period The scholars seem to agree: Cleopatra was the last in a line of Ptolemies–Macedonian Greeks(Whites)–who ruled Egypt from the death of Alexander the Great in 305 B.C. until Antony’s defeat in the battle of Actium in 31 B.C. The Ptolemies, as was the custom, were an incestuous, intermarrying peoples (to preserve the royal bloodline),also often having relations with the courtiers and concubines who filled their palaces. Many of the children born of these unions were given a place in the royal lineage despite being illegitimate, the secret unspoken. Many believe that Cleopatra’s father was the product of such a union – his mother may have been a concubine from Nubia(Black) or Alexandria(White). Lending credence to this theory is the fact that Cleopatra’s bond to the people of Egypt seemed greater than those of her Ptolemic ancestors, who aligned themselves culturally and linguistically with Greece. MODERN ETHNIC SAMPLINGS OF ARAB (SEMITIC WHITES) COMPARED TO BLACKS Arab (Semitic Whites) Americans: Lebanese heritage: Ralph Nader, Jamie Farr (Klinger on Mash), and the late Danny Thomas. Arab (Semitic White) Americans: Egyptian heritage: Dina Powell, Rami Malek compared to: MIXED: half Arab (Semitic White) – Egyptian/ half Black (Sudanese/ Nubian/ Kemetian) : Anwar Sadat Black Americans: Bill Cosby, Denzel Washington, and, Will Smith Clearly, you can tell the sets of men and one woman, do NOT fit in the same ethnic classification. The late Anwar Sadat, was half Arab (Semitic White) – Egyptian and half Black (Sudanese), many of the same features attributed to King Tut, whom most likely, was also biethnic.
When Blacks and Egyptians (Arab Semitic Whites) intermarry, Black traits do dominate (i.e. – Anwar Sadat – (Egyptian Arab Semitic White Father – Black Sudanese mother)).
WHAT GENETIC EVIDENCE IS THERE? A sampling of ethnicities in Egypt:
The following link also shows the DNA pattern of Ancient and Modern Egyptians whom were Arab Semitic White, NOT Black or even Hamitic(long outdated and proven wrong):
Arabs have the following Haplotypes F, J1(most common & J2), L3, and V-most common among Ancient(mummy DNA testing) and Modern Egyptians, signifying they are Arab Semitic White.
Bottom line, Blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities ANY way you cut it – genetically and by anthropological measurements. J1 one only identifies a White person as Arab Semitic versus Indo European Aryan, but Arabs have all the other Caucasian markers. Only those whom are MIXED have J1, White and Black haplomarkers. There is proof, of course, of admixtures to. Afro centrists often attempt to portray the Nubians as the above peoples against anthropological measurements and DNA testing(haploid markers). Genetic flow indicates a flux out of, and, BACK into Africa. Ethiopia and Sudan are each 1/3 Arab Semitic White – admixtures of Black/Arab gives these peoples a more or less Caucasian looking features. The presence of haplomarker J1 in many of the Somalis and Ethiopians negates the theory of Caucasian features falling in the ethnic variation of Blacks and indicates an Black/ Arab Semitic White admixture.The further South into Sub Sahara, the stronger the Black genetic influence and the further North into North Africa, the stronger the Arab Semitic White genetic influence. In between, exists the admixtures, not just Arab Semitic White, but all ethnicities. Because peoples originate in Africa, does NOT mean they were Black. Two forms of Homo sapiens(modern humans are a subclassification, Homo sapiens sapiens), both extinct, existed at the same time- Idaltu (had Negroid/ Black features), and, Cro Magnon (had Caucasoid/ White features). Personally, I still favor the old theory, that the ethnicities had different origins at the same time, otherwise, the ethnicities all would have shown gradual changes instead of clearly different ethnicities whom show some overlapping of ethnicities/ characteristics:
ETHNIC HAPLOMARKERS
Caucasoid – E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J (Semites-1 & 2), K, L3 (Semites), T, U, V (Semites), W, X, Y Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians (Red) and Malaysians (Brown) ethnicities in this group – C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and, X Negroid – A, B , E (except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N – all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks – presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic back flow rather than present normally M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks E1a and E2 are found almost exclusively in Africa, and only E1b1b is observed in significant frequencies in Europe and western Asia in addition to Africa. Most SUB-SAHARAN AFRICANS belong to subclades of E OTHER than E1b1b, while MOST NON-AFRICANS who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade. Greeks and Romans have Indo European Aryan White DNA (haploid) markers and the Ancient and Modern Egyptians have Arab Semitic White DNA(haploid) markers- subclade E1b1b. Arabs in North Africa are Semitic White, and, technically, can be called White, not, Black, Africans. Greece and Rome are a part of Europe, so Greeks and Romans would be called Indo European Aryan White. According to Wikipedia, “Most Sub-Saharan Africans belong to subclades of E other than E1b1b, while most non-Africans who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade.” (Citing Fulvio Cruciani et al, Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E1b1b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa, Am. J. Hum. Genet, p. 74)
The first lineage to branch off from Mitochondrial Eve is L0. This haplogroup is found in high proportions among the San of Southern Africa, the Sandawe of East Africa. It is also found among the Mbuti people. These groups branched off early in human history and have remained relatively genetically isolated since then. Haplogroups L1, L2 and L3 are descendents of L0 and are largely confined to Africa. The macro haplogroups M and N, which are the lineages of the rest of the world outside Africa, descend from L3. Scientists refer to L0 as the first offshoot of Mitochondrial Eve, estimated to have lived in East Africa approximately 150,000 to 170,000 years ago. Haplogroup L0 consist of five main branches (L0a, L0b, L0d, L0f, L0k). Four of them were originally classified into haplogroup L1 as L1a, L1d, L1f, and L1k. Some scientists used to refer to L0 as an extinct haplogroup, but since then scientists have identified haplogroups L0-L6 as existing in living humans. The formerly named L1 branches (L1d, L1k, L1a, L1f) have been re-classified into haplogroup L0 as L0d, L0k, L0a and L0f. Haplogroup L1 is believed to have first appeared in East Africa approximately 150,000 to 170,000 years ago. Haplogroup L1 is a daughter of Mitochondrial Eve like her sister haplogroup L0. L1 and sisters haplogroups L2, L3, L4, L5, and L6 are distinguished from L0 by genetic markers at 182, 1048, 4312, 6185, 11914, and 12007. It is found most commonly in the Sub – Saharan Africa. It reaches its highest frequency in the !Kung people at 69%. L1 has two branches- L1b and L1c. L1b is most frequent in West Africa. L1c is more common amongst the Bantu and Semi-Bantu speakers of west-central tropical Africa.
Haplogroup L0a is most prevalent in South – East African populations (25% in Mozambique). Among Guineans, it has a frequency between 1% and 5%, with the Balanta group showing increased frequency of about 11%. Haplogroup L0a has a Paleolithic time depth of about 33,000 years and likely reached Guinea between 10,000 and 4,000 years ago. It also is often seen in the Mbuti and Biaka-pygmies. Haplogroups L0b is found mostly amongst West Africans. Haplogroup L0f is present in relatively small frequencies in East Africa. Haplogroups L0d and L0k are typical for Khoisan tribes in South Africa. Indeed, not only were many women alive at the same time as Mitochondrial Eve but many of them have living descendants through their sons. While the mtDNA of these women is gone, their Nuclear genes are present in today’s population. What distinguishes Mitochondrial Eve (and her matrilineal ancestors) from all her female contemporaries is that she has a purely matrilineal line of descent to all humans alive today, whereas all her female contemporaries with descendants alive today have at least one male in every line of descent. Because mitochondrial DNA is only passed through matrilineal descent, all humans alive today have mitochondrial DNA that is traceable back to Mitochondrial Eve. Furthermore, it can be shown that every female contemporary of Mitochondrial Eve either has no living descendant today or is an ancestor to all living people. Starting with ‘the’ most recent common ancestor (MRCA) at around 3,000 years ago, one can trace all ancestors of the MRCA backward in time. At every ancestral generation, more and more ancestors (via both paternal and maternal lines) of MRCA are found. These ancestors are by definition also common ancestors of all living people. Eventually, there will be a point in the past where all humans can be divided into two groups: those who left no descendants today and those who are common ancestors of all living humans today. This point in time is termed the identical ancestors point and is estimated to be between 5,000 and 15,000 years ago. Since Mitochondrial Eve is estimated to have lived more than a hundred thousand years before the identical ancestors point, every woman contemporary to her is either not an ancestor of any living people, or a common ancestor of all living people. Mitochondrial organelles, which contain mitochondrial DNA (mtDNA), are passed only from mother to offspring. A comparison of DNA sequences from mtDNA in a population reveals a molecular phylogeny. Unlike mtDNA, which is outside the nucleus, genes containing nuclear DNA become recombined after being inherited from both parents, and therefore we can be statistically less certain about nuclear DNA origins than we can for mtDNA, which is only inherited from the mother. mtDNA also mutates at a higher rate compared to nuclear DNA, so it gives researchers a more useful, magnified view of the diversity present in a population, and its history. Just as mitochondria are inherited matrilineally, Y-chromosomes are inherited patrilineally. Thus it is possible to apply the same principles outlined above to men. The common patrilineal ancestor of all humans alive today has been dubbed Y-chromosomal Adam. Importantly, the genetic evidence suggests that the most recent patriarch of all humanity is much more recent than the most recent matriarch, suggesting that ‘Adam’ and ‘Eve’ were not alive at the same time. While ‘Eve’ is believed to be alive 140,000 years ago, ‘Adam’ lived only 60,000 years ago. Homo sapiens is assumed to have speciated from Homo heidelbergensis in the period of 200,000 – 160,000. The fact that Mitochondrial Eve happens to be dated to precisely this period has been taken as evidence of a population bottleneck (e.g. – Toba catastrophe theory) giving rise to the human species. There are, however, many ways such family trees can be constructed. A tree can be constructed based on any gene, not just the mitochondrial DNA. When different such trees including the mtDNA tree are compared, no population bottleneck is found because different trees show different coalescent points. The inconsistencies between coalescent points indicate that there had been numerous gene interchanges between population groups around the world, even after the first exodus out of Africa. This idea forms the basis of Alan Templeton’s ‘Out of Africa Again and Again’ theory. The Mitochondrial DNA provides another support for the Out of Africa hypothesis in the form of gene diversity. One finding not subject to interpretation is that the greatest diversity of mitochondrial DNA sequences exists among Africans. This diversity is believed to have accumulated because humans have been living longer in Africa than anywhere. Family trees (or “phylogenies”) constructed on the basis of mitochondrial DNA comparisons show that the living humans whose mitochondrial lineages branched earliest from the tree (L0) are prevalent among the San and the Mbuti people. The subsequent branches of L1, L2 and L3 are also largely confined to Africa, while only the macrogroups M and N, descended from L3, participated in the ancient migration(s) out of Africa. The mutations defining macro-haplogroup CR (all Y haplogroups except A and B) predate the “Out of Africa” migration, its descendent macro-group DE being confined to Africa. The mutations that distinguish Haplogroup C from all other descendants of CR have occurred some 60,000 years ago, shortly after the first Out of Africa migration.
Haplogroup F originated some 45,000 years ago, either in North Africa (in which case it would point to a second wave of out-of-Africa migration) or in South Asia. More than 90% of males not native to Africa are descended in direct male line from the first bearer of haplogroup F. Some 70 millennia ago, a part of the bearers of mitochondrial haplogroup L3 migrated from East Africa into the Near East. Some scientists believe that only a few people left Africa in a single migration that went on to populate the rest of the world. It has been estimated that from a population of 2,000 to 5,000 in Africa, only a small group of possibly 150 people crossed the Red Sea. This is because, of all the lineages present in Africa, only the daughters of one lineage, L3, are found outside Africa. Had there been several migrations one would expect more than one African lineage outside Africa. L3’s daughters, the M and N lineages, are found in very low frequencies in Africa (although haplogroup M1 is very ancient and diversified in North and Northeast Africa) and appear to be recent arrivals. A possible explanation is that these mutations occurred in East Africa shortly before the exodus and by the founder effect became the dominant haplogroups after the exodus from Africa. Alternatively, the mutations may have arisen shortly after the exodus from Africa. Other scientists have proposed a Multiple Dispersal Model, in which there were two migrations out of Africa, one across the Red Sea travelling along the coastal regions to India (the Coastal Route), which would be represented by Haplogroup M. Another group of migrants with Haplogroup N followed the Nile from East Africa, heading northwards and crossing into Asia through the Sinai. This group then branched in several directions, some moving into Europe and others heading east into Asia. This hypothesis attempts to explain why Haplogroup N is predominant in Europe and why Haplogroup M is absent in Europe. Evidence of the coastal migration is hypothesized to have been destroyed by the rise in sea levels during the Holocene epoch. Alternatively, a small European founder population that initially expressed both Haplogroup M and N could have lost Haplogroup M through random genetic drift resulting from a bottleneck (i.e. – a founder effect). From the Near East, these populations spread east to South Asia by 50,000 years ago, and on to Australia by 40,000 years ago, Homo sapiens for the first time colonizing territory never reached by Homo erectus. Europe was reached by Cro-Magnon some 40 millennia ago. East Asia (Korea, Japan) was reached by 30,000 years ago. It is disputed whether subsequent migration to North America took place around 30 millennia ago, or only considerably later, around 14,000 years ago.
The group that crossed the Red Sea traveled along the coastal route around the coast of Arabia and Persia until reaching India, which appears to be the first major settling point. M is found in high frequencies along the southern coastal regions of Pakistan and India and it has the greatest diversity in India, indicating that it is here where the mutation may have occurred. 60% of the Indian population belong to Haplogroup M. The indigenous people of the Andaman Islands also belong to the M lineage. The Andamanese are thought to be offshoots of some of the earliest inhabitants in Asia because of their long isolation from mainland Asia. They are evidence of the coastal route of early settlers that extends from India along the coasts of Thailand and Indonesia all the way to Papua New Guinea. Since M is found in high frequencies in highlanders from New Guinea as well, and both the Andamanese and New Guineans have dark skin and Afro-textured hair, some scientists believe they are all part of the same wave of migrants who departed across the Red Sea ~ 60,000 years ago in the Great Coastal Migration. Notably, the findings of Harding et al.(2000, p 1355) show that, at least with regard to dark skin color, the haplotype background of Papua New Guineans at MC1R (one of a number of genes involved in melanin production) is identical to that of Africans (barring a single silent mutation). Thus, although these groups are distinct from Africans at other loci (due to drift, bottlenecks, etc), it is evident that selection for the dark skin color trait likely continued (at least at MC1R) following the exodus. This would support the hypothesis that suggests that the original migrants from Africa resembled pre-exodus Africans (at least in skin color), and that the present day remnants of this ancient phenotype can be seen among contemporary Africans, Andamanese and New Guineans. Others suggest that their physical resemblance to Africans could be the result of convergent evolution. From Arabia to India the proportion of haplogroup M increases eastwards: in eastern India, M outnumbers N by a ratio of 3:1. However, crossing over into East Asia, Haplogroup N reappears as the dominant lineage. M is predominant in South East Asia but amongst Indigenous Australians N reemerges as the more common lineage. This discontinuous distribution of Haplogroup N from Europe to Australia can be explained by founder effects and population bottlenecks. The multiregional hypothesis holds that the evolution of humanity from the beginning of the Pleistocene 1.8 million years BP to the present day has been within a single, continuous population evolving worldwide till today. This means that proponents of multiregional origin reject the assumption of a infertility barrier between Eurasian and African human populations. Multiregional proponents point to fossil record and million years old genetic lineages in chromosomal human DNA. On the other hand very strong genetic similarities among all humans reflect the interconnectedness of human populations around the world, resulting in relatively constant gene flow (Thorne and Wolpoff 1992) Genetic statistical calculation (2006 results) suggested that at least 5% of human modern gene pool can be attributed to ancient admixture, European contribution is the Neanderthal. King Tut as he may have looked today-taken from actual statues of him-hair added.His facial structure appears remarkably similar, so is a true likeness. His dark brown skin tone is in agreement with the skin tone of the Ancient Egyptians and NOT the black skin tone of the Nubians-yes, some likenesses show him with a black skin tone attributed with death worship and the afterlife and there are also other likenesses that show him with a much lighter skin tone. His skin tone varies with lighting and dyes used, but his general facial and head structure appears to be as above. He appears to be of mixed Semitic White/Black heritage like Anwar Sadat Egyptian Arab Semitic White father-Sudanese-Nubian-people of Kemet mother.
King Tut
Bust found at the entry to Tutankhamen’s Tomb Canadian Museum of Civilization Corporation(hair added) – Black/ White (probably Arab Semitic), and, possibly very small amount of Asian admixture is apparent.  Statue Black (Nubian) model
Queen Nefertiti, King Tut’s step mother Afro centrists often claim Nefertiti was Black. Clearly, Nefertiti was NOT Black, at least not all Black.
Because the authenticity of the above likeness of Nefertiti is disputed, here are some likenesses that are NOT disputed:
   Nefertiti when she was older than the above likeness(statue)
Statue Model
Queen Tiye, King Tut’s grandmother
The very beautiful Queen Tiye, King Tut’s grandmother. The model is of mixed heritage-White(Egyptian Arab Semitic), Black(Sudanese-Nubian-Kemitian), and Asian(Chinese) as is believed of Queen Tiye. Hair samples from her mummy are yellowish to blond and show Caucasian features. Xrays of Queen Tiye’s mummy’s skull demonstrate Negoid features, evidence of admixtures:
King Tut Michael Jackson
King Tut and Michael Jackson(photo-about 1985 -minor nose, lip, chin, and eye surgery and skin lightening to take on a more Caucasian look) – uncanny resemblance, then, NOT at his 6/25/09 passing. |
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March 20, 2009 at 1:38 pm |
You devils do not have a clue what you’re talking about. It’s a known fact that ancient Egypt, or should I say Kemet, was populated by black Africans just like the rest of Africa. Why would all of Africa be black except for one small portion? It doesn’t make any since. All of the ancient Kemet artifacts, which have not been destroyed by whites, display the people as being black. Even Constantine described the people of Kemet as black. Only white people who are living in denial and who are afraid of the truth will say ancient, so called Egyptians, were white. It amazes me how some white people will go the distance to claim something that never belonged to them in the first place. Like America!!! P.S. The mural on the tomb of Seti I displayed the Egyptians with the exact same skin complexion as the other Africans so please get your facts right next time. It’s also a known fact that the nose and lips of the Sphinx were blown off by Roman canons because of there black features so again you’re wrong. If you want real facts visit check out these short films, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9WOZ0C4gPAI. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0puxbkOJzT4.
March 20, 2009 at 3:13 pm |
1) Kemet was NOT Egypt, but Nubia-Egypt annexed part of Nubia in 1521 B.C.(lower southwestern 1/4 of Egypt-remainder,present day Sudan).
2) Africa is not, and has NOT been all Black-two forms of modern humans existed-Idaltu(Negroid features,Cro Magnon(Caucasoid features,Maghreb, indigenous African)peoples, classified as Aboriginal Caucasoids(White/resembling White).Arab Semitic Whie makes up 1/3 of Africa(North)
3) There are pctures of ALL peoples of all different colors-King Tut as figures going the gamut from White to Black-most commonly accepted color is in the article.The Nubians were Black.
4) The Mural on King Seti I, is the Ancient Egyptian “Book of the Gates”, also shown in the article-Ancient Egypyians(dark brown skin) delineate themselves from Nubians(people of Kemet-black skins).Afro centrists often replace the Egyptian with the Black Nubuian, often times, even removing the labels, so it appears the Black Nubian an the Egyptian look identical-the true image is posted in the article for all to see the truth-GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT.
5) King Khafre is the face the Sphinx is based on-he is Arab Semitic White-compare the photos in the article-not an Black African nose-features of the Sphinx are Caucasian-high forehead, thin lips(NOT blown away as you stated), recessed jaw-nose from King Khafre-prononced and narrow.
6) Your links show afro centrist views when all ethnicities have been presented in Egypt drawing, murals, busts-please, view the links and you will see how inaccurate and one-sided your views are against DNA testing and anthropological measurements. A high percentage of Egyptians(30% were admixtures of Black/Arab Semitic White-again in article, but the ethnicity of the Anient and Modern Egyptians is Arab Semitic White, NOT Black Nubian).
CONCLUSION: The article is VERY factual and unbiased.
May 2, 2014 at 3:00 pm
1.
Kemet was the original name of Egypt at its dawn.
2. Cro-magons are modern people not White people. they did not become white until about 10K years ago. The first human found in Egypt was 30K years old and black. The first mummy found was 10K years old and black. Non-blacks are foreigners in Kemet. arbas were called asiatic sand dwellers.
3. Only true because Egypt is in white face. The light brown people get more attention in books and magazines while all of the restorations are given Caucasian noses. When you look at all the art with the broken noses you see high brown to black skin and thick lips which is exactly how the Greeks described them.
4.. That Mural was destroyed and remade so we dont know what was there however we do have the tomb of Ramses the iii http://manuampim.com/Images/Lepsius_4Groups.jpg
Blacks and brown people were listed as citizens of KMT.
5. Idiot Khafre was remade and its obvious he wasnt the Sphinx. This is the real Khafre with an unrestored nose
The Sphinx is black. http://files.abovetopsecret.com/files/img/vn4ebf370d.jpg
Show me one white person with a face like that.
May 2, 2014 at 11:07 pm
Rory – your statements have all been answered in the article – Khafre has a Caucasian face, even by your link – he does NOT look Black – see the article – if you half seriously read it (sounds like you didn’t) you would know this.
March 25, 2009 at 8:32 pm |
GOING TO MAKE THIS SHORT
THE ABOVE ARTICLE IS ACADEMICALY INCORRECT.
DR. ZAHI HAWASS IS LYING TO THE WORLD UNDER THE CATHOLIC CHURCH AND AMERICAN AGENDA AND HEGEMONY.
IN 1978 THERE WAS A UNESCO SYMPOSIUM ON THE PEOPLING OF ANCIENT EGYPT SPONSORED BY THE U.N AND HELD IN GENEVA SWITZ.
DR. CHEIK ANTA DIOP AND HIS COMRADE DILEGENTLY PRESENTED A PROFFESIONAL AND THOROUGH 2 DAY LECTURE AND DEBATE ON ANCIENT EGPYT BEING BLACK AND PEOPLED BY NUBIAN AFRICANS(NATUFIANS)
HE EVEN HAD MELANIN DOSAGE TESTING TO PROVE IT.
THE RESPONSE BY THE OVER 30 ARAB AND WHITE SCHOLARS WAS ONE OF SILENCE.
THE WHITE AND ARAB SCHOLARS SAY THEY HAD NOTHING TO SAY CAUSE THEY DID NOT COME TO THE ‘SYMPOSIUM’ PREPARED………
NEEDLESS TO SAY, CHEIK ANTA DIOP RESEARCH WAS IMPECABLE AND HIS RESEARCH IS DOCUMENTED IN THE WORLD HISTORY OF THE UNITED NATIONS. NOT THAT MANY KNOW AN CAN ACCESS THIS WONDERFUL ENCYCLOPEDIA, BUT IT IS THERE.
ALSO HEROTODUS, DIODORUS, PLATO, HOMER, EUSIBIUS, AND JOSEPHEUS, ALL GREEK WRITERS BEFORE THE COMMON AREA, HAVE ALL SAID THAT THE EGYPTIANS OF THERE TIME WERE BLACK, STRECTHING FROM EGYPT(KEMET) TO INDIA(INDUS VALLEY). AND THESE ARE ALL CLASSICAL WRITERS, NOT ANCIENT ANTIQUITY WRITEERS.
DR. ZAHI HAWASS IS A LIAR AND A FAKE.
POPULATIONS GENETICS PROOF THAT ALL PEOPLE COME FROM AFRICA AND ARE OF AFRICAN DECENT.
CAUCASIANS DIDNT COME TO REALITY UNTIL 18,000 YEARS AGO
ARABS 3000 YEARS AGO.
DO YOUR READING. READ DOUGLASS WALLACE, AND SPENCER WELLS.
ALSO
A Composition of Writings
The Subject of Race and Ethnicity in Ancient Kemet(Egypt)
The “debate” on what race the Ancient Egyptians belonged to, appears to be an interminable one, popping up relentlessly everywhere there’s a discussion about these great people. So let us pause momentarily and tally exactly where we stand thus far…
All those who say that the Ancient Egyptians were Black folks:
1)The Ancient Egyptians
2)The Ancient Greeks 3) The Ancient Romans
Herodotus Strabo
Aristotle Diodorus of Sicily
Lucian Diogenes Laertius
Apollodorus Ammanius Marcellinus
Aeschylus Aristotle
Diodorus Siculus Stephanus
Achilles Tatius
Ephorus
4)France 5) England
Count Constatine de Volney EW Budge (finally, reluctantly) –
Marius Fontanes – “Les Egyptes” Keeper of the Egyptian and
Assyrian Antiquities. British
Museum”
Bishop Montgomery
6)Africa
Professor C.A. Diop
Professor Theophile Obenga
7)The Christian Bible
8)The Kebra Nagast (Ethiopian bible)
9)The Tanakh (Torah)
10)The Koran
All those who say that the Ancient Egyptians were not Black folks:
1)White Egyptologists
……………………………………………………………………………………………….
A definition of ‘ancient Egyptian’ in an ancient Greek tale
The fifth century BC Greek writer Herodotus records a legal dispute that provides one definition of Egyptian identity: a community on the western Delta fringes argued that it should not pay tax, because it was outside Egypt, but the oracle consulted in the case gave the answer that all who drank of the Nile north of Elephantine were Egyptians (Herodotus Book II, 18).
Two features set Elephantine as a natural southern border for this Nile Valley Egypt:
communications: travelling south from the Mediterranean, Elephantine heralds the first group of rocks impeding river travel (the First Cataract in the Nile Valley), and so it presents a natural communications border to the area of relatively free travel
linguistic: the area was unified by one language, Egyptian
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The Egyptian “Race” According to the Classical Authors of Antiquity
To the Greek and Latin writers contemporary with the ancient Egyptians the latter’s physical classification posed no problems: the Egyptians were negroes, thick-lipped, kinky-haired and thin-legged; the unanimity of the author’s evidence on a physical fact as salient as a people’s race will be difficult to minimize or pass over. Some of the following evidence drives home the point.
(a) Herodotus, ‘the father of history’, -480(?) to -425. With regard to the origins of the Colchians25 he writes:
it is in fact manifest that the Colchidians(black Africans living at the southern part of the Black Sea in modern day southern Russia surrounded by White tribes) are Egyptian by race … several Egyptians told me that in their opinion the Colchidians were descended from soldiers of Sesostris. I had conjectured as much myself from two pointers, firstly because they have black skins and kinky hair (to tell the truth this proves nothing for other peoples have them too) and secondly, and more reliably for the reason that alone among mankind the Egyptians and the Ethiopians have practiced circumcision since time immemorial. The Phoenicians and Syrians of Palestine themselves admit that they learnt the practice from the Egyptians while the Syrians in the river Thermodon and Pathenios region and their neighbors the Macrons say they learnt it recently from the Colchidians. These are the only races which practice circumcision and it is observable that they do it in the same way as the Egyptians. As between the Egyptians themselves and the Ethiopians I could not say which taught the other the practice for among them it is quite clearly a custom of great antiquity. As to the custom having been learnt through their Egyptian connections, a further strong proof to my mind is that all those Phoenicians trading to Greece cease to treat the pudenda after the Egyptian manner and do not subject their offspring to circumcision.26
Herodotus reverts several times to the negroid character of the Egyptians and each time uses it as a fact of observation to argue more or less complex theses. Thus to prove that the Greek oracle at Dondona in Epirus was of Egyptian origin, one of his arguments is the following: ‘. . . and when they add that the dove was black they give us to understand that the woman was Egyptian.’27 The doves in question – actually there were two according to the text – symbolize two Egyptian women who are said to have BEEN carried off from the Egyptian Thebes to found the oracles in Greece at Dodona and in Libya (Oasis of Jupiter Amon) respectively. Herodotus did not share the opinion of Anaxagoras that the melting of the snows on the mountains of Ethiopia was the source of the Nile floods.28 He relied on the fact that it neither rains or snows in Ethiopia ‘and the heat there turns men black’.29
Herodotus
Origins of the Oracle of Dodona
At Dodona, however, the priestesses who deliver the oracles have a different version of the story: two black doves, they say, flew away from Thebes in Egypt, and one of them alighted at Dodona, the other in Libya (Africa)…The story which the people of Dodona tell about the doves came, I should say, from the fact that the women were foreigners, whose language sounded to them like the twittering of birds…As to the bird being black, they merely signify by this that the woman was Egyptian. –Histories book II
Colchians are of Egyptian Descent
But it is undoubtedly a fact that the Colchians are of Egyptian descent…My own idea on the subject was based on the fact that they have black skins and wooly hair…and secondly, and more especially, on the fact that the Colchians, the Egyptians, and the Ethiopians are the only races which from ancient times have practiced circumcision. –Histories book II
Herodotus wrote in his celebrated History that both the Western Ethiopians, who lived in Africa, and the Eastern Ethiopians who dwelled in India, were black in complexion, but that the Africans had curly hair, while the Indians were straight-haired. (The aboriginal black inhabitants of India are generally referred to as the Dravidians, of whom more will be said as we proceed.)
(b) Aristotle, -389 to -332 B.C.E, scientist, philosopher and tutor of Alexander the Great.
In one of his minor works, Aristotle attempts, with unexpected naivete’, to establish a correlation between the physical and moral natures of living beings and leaves us evidence on the Egyptian-Ethiopian race which confirms what Herodotus says. According to him, ‘Those who are too black are cowards, like for instance, the Egyptians and Ethiopians. But those who are excessively white are also cowards as we can see from the example of women, the complexion of courage is between the two.’30-Physiognomy, 6
(c) Lucian, Greek writer, +125(?) to +190.
The evidence of Lucian is as explicit as that of the two previous writers. He introduces two Greeks, Lycinus and Timolaus, who start a conversation.
Lycinus (describing a young Egyptian): ‘This boy is not merely black; he has thick lips and his legs are too thin. . . his hair worn in a plait behind shows that he is not a freeman.’
Timolaus: ‘But that is a sign of really distinguished birth in Egypt, Lycinus. All freeborn children plait their hair until they reach manhood. It is the exact opposite of the custom of our ancestors who thought it seemly for old men to secure their hair with a gold brooch to keep it in place.’31
(d) Apollodorus, first century before our era, Greek philosopher.
‘Aegyptos conquered the country of the blackfooted ones and called it Egypt after himself.’32
(e) Aeschylus, -525(?) to -456 b.c.e tragic poet and creator of Greek tragedy.
In The Suppliants, Danaos, fleeing with his daughters, the Danaids, and pursued by his brother Aegyptos with his sons, the Aegyptiads, who seek to wed their cousins by force, climbs a hillock, looks out to sea and describes the Aegyptiads at the oars afar off in these terms: ‘I can see the crew with their black limbs and white tunics.’33
A similar description of the Egyptian type of man recurs a few lines later in verse 745.
(f) Achilles Tatius of Alexandria.
He compares the herdsmen of the Delta to the Ethiopians and explains that they are blackish, like half-castes.
(g) Strabo, -58 to about +25.
Strabo visited Egypt and almost all the countries of the Roman empire. He concurs in the theory that the Egyptians and the Colchoi are of the same race but holds that the migrations to Ethiopia and Colchoi had been from Egypt only
‘Egyptians settled in Ethiopia and in Colchoi.’34 There is no doubt whatever as to Strabo’s notion of the Egyptian’s race for he seeks elsewhere to explain why the Egyptians are darker than the Hindus, a circumstance which would permit the refutation, if needed, of any attempt at confusing ‘the Hindu and Egyptian races’.
“I assert that the ancient Greeks, in the same way as they classed all the northern nations with which they were familiar as Scythians, etc., so, I affirm, they designated as Ethiopia the whole of the southern countries toward the ocean.” Strabo adds that “if the moderns have confined the appellation Ethiopians to those only who dwell near Egypt, this must not be allowed to interfere with the meaning of the ancients.”
(h)Ephorus
says that: “The Ethiopians were considered as occupying all the south coasts of both Asia and Africa,” and adds that “this is an ancient opinion of the of the Greeks
(i)Stephanus of Byzantium,
that: “Ethiopia was the first established country on earth; and the Ethiopians were the first who introduced the worship of the gods, and who established laws.”
The vestiges of this early civilization have been found in Nubia, the Egyptian Sudan, West Africa, Egypt, Mashonaland, India, Persia, Mesopotamia, Arabia, South America, Central America, Mexico, and the United States. Any student who doubts this will find ample evidence in such works as (see references below)John G Jackson (1930)
(j) Diodorus of Sicily, about -63 to +14, Greek historian and contemporary of Caesar Augustus.
According to Diodorus it was probably Ethiopia which colonized Egypt (in the Athenian sense of the term, signifying that, with overpopulation, a proportion of the people emigrate to new territory).
The Ethiopians say that the Egyptians `are one of their colonies,35 which was led into Egypt by Osiris. They claim that at the beginning of the world Egypt was simply a sea but that the Nile, carrying down vast quantities of loam from Ethiopia in its flood waters, finally filled it in and made it part of the continent. . . They add that the Egyptians have received from them, as from authors and their ancestors, the greater part of their laws.36-Universal History, book III
(k)Diogenes Laertius.
He wrote the following about Zeno, founder of the stoic School (-333 to -261): ‘Zeno son of Mnaseas or Demeas was a native of Citium in Cyprus, a Greek city which has taken in some Phoenician colonists.’ In his Lives, Timotheus of Athens describes Zeno as having a twisted neck. Apollonius of Tyre says of him that he was gaunt, very tall and black, hence the fact that, according to Chrysippus in the First Book of his Proverbs, certain people called him an Egyptian vine-shoot.37
(l) Ammianus Marcellinus, about +33 to +100, Latin historian and friend of the Emperor Julian.
With him we reach the sunset of the Roman empire and the end of classical antiquity. There are about nine centuries between the birth of Aeschylus and Herodotus and the death of Ammianus Marcellinus, nine centuries during which the Egyptians, amid a sea of white races, steadily crossbred. It can be said without exaggeration that in Egypt one household in ten included a white Asiatic or Indo-European slave.39
It is remarkable that, despite its intensity, all this crossbreeding should not have succeeded in upsetting the racial constants. Indeed Ammianus Marcellinus writes: “. . .the men of Egypt are mostly brown and black with a skinny and desiccated look.”39 He also confirms the evidence already cited about the Colchoi: ‘Beyond these lands are the heartlands of the Camaritae40 and the Phasis with its swifter stream borders the country of the Colchoi, an ancient race of Egyptian origin.’41
This cursory review of the evidence of the ancient Graeco-Latin writers on the Egyptians’ race shows that the extent of agreement between them is impressive and is an objective fact difficult to minimize or conceal, the two alternatives between which present-day Egyptology constantly oscillates.Origin of the Ancient Egyptians by Cheikh Anta Diop
(m)Bishop William Montgomery Brown:
“For the first two or three thousand years of civilization, there was not a civilized white man on the earth. Civilization was founded and developed by the swarthy races of Mesopotamia, Syria and Egypt, and the white race remained so barbaric that in those days an Egyptian or a Babylonian priest would have said that the riffraff of white tribes a few hundred miles to the north of their civilization were hopelessly incapable of acquiring the knowledge requisite to progress. It was southern colored peoples everywhere, in China, in Central America, in India, Mesopotamia, Syria, Egypt and Crete who gave the northern white peoples civilization.” (The Bankruptcy of Christian Supernaturalism, Vol., p. 192.)
(n)Count Francis de Volney
An exception is the evidence of an honest savant. Volney, who travelled in Egypt between +1783 and +1785, i.e. at the peak period of negro slavery, and made the following observations on the true Egyptian race, the same which produced the Pharaohs, namely the Copts:
All of them are puffy-faced, heavy eyed and thick-lipped, in a word, real mulatto faces. I was tempted to attribute this to the climate until, on visiting the Sphinx, the look of it gave me the clue to the egnima. Beholding that head characteristically Negro in all its features, I recalled the well-known passage of Herodotus which reads: ‘For my part I consider the Colchoi are a colony of the Egyptians because, like them, they are black skinned and kinky-haired.’ In other words the ancient Egyptians were true negroes of the same stock as all the autochthonous peoples of Africa and from that datum one sees how their race, after some centuries of mixing with the blood of Romans and Greeks, must have lost the full blackness of its original colour but retained the impress of its original mould. It is even possible to apply this observation very widely and posit in principle that physiognomy is a
kind of record usable in many cases for disputing or elucidating the evidence of history on the
origins of the peoples . . .
After illustrating this proposition citing the case of the Normans, who 900 years after the conquest of Normandy still look like Danes, Volney adds:
but reverting to Egypt, its contributions to history afford many subjects for philosophic reflection. What a subject for meditation is the present-day barbarity and ignorance of the Copts who were considered, born of the alliance of the deep genius of the Egyptians and the brilliance of the Greeks, that this race of blacks who nowadays are slaves and the objects of our scorn is the very one to which we owe our
arts, our sciences, and even the use of spoken word; and finally recollect that it is in the midst of the peoples claiming to be the greatest friends of liberty and humanity that the most barbarous of enslavements has been sanctioned and the question raised whether black men have brains of the same quality as those of white men!42
To this testimony of Volney, Champollion-Figeac, brother of Champollion the Younger, was to reply in the following terms: ‘The two physical traits of black skin and kinky hair are not enough to stamp a race as negro and Volney’s conclusion as to the negro origin of the ancient population of Egypt is glaringly forced and inadmissible.’43
Being black from head to foot and having kinky hair is not enough to make a man a negro! This shows us the kind of specious argumentation to which Egyptology has had to resort since its birth as a science. Some scholars maintain that Volney was seeking to shift the discussion to a philisophic plane. But we have only to re-read Volney: he is simply drawing the inferences from crude material facts forcing
“Those piles of ruins which you see in that narrow valley watered by the Nile, are the remains of opulent cities, the pride of the ancient kingdom of Ethiopia. … There a people, now forgotten, discovered while others were yet barbarians, the elements of the arts and sciences. A race of men now rejected from society for their sable skin and frizzled hair, founded on the study of the laws of nature, those civil and religious systems which still govern the universe.” themselves on his eyes and his conscience as proofs.
“It is pretty well settled that the city is the Negro’s great contribution to civilization, for it was in Africa where the first cities grew up.” E. Haldeman-Julius
“The accident of the predominance of white men in modern times should not give us supercilious ideas about color or persuade us to listen to superficial theories about the innate superiority of the white-skinned man. Four thousand years ago, when civilization was already one or two thousand years old, white men were just a bunch of semi-savages on the outskirts of the civilized world. If there had been anthropologists in Crete, Egypt, and Babylonia, they would have pronounced the white race obviously inferior, and might have discoursed learnedly on the superior germ-plasm or glands of colored folk.” Joseph McCabe
Sir E. A. Wallis Budge
“that classical historians and geographers called the whole region from India to Egypt, both countries inclusive, by the name of Ethiopia, and in consequence they regarded all the dark-skinned and black peoples who inhabited it as Ethiopians. Mention is made of Eastern and Western Ethiopians and it is probable that the Easterners were Asiatics and the Westerners Africans.” (History of Ethiopia, Vol. I., Preface, by Sir E. A. Wallis Budge.) In addition Budge notes that, “Homer and Herodotus call all the peoples of the Sudan, Egypt, Arabia, Palestine and Western Asia and India Ethiopians.” (Ibid., p. 2.)
Sir Henry Rawlinson concluded from this and other evidence that the first civilized inhabitants of Sumer and Akkad were immigrants from the African Ethiopia. John D. Baldwin, the American Orientalist, on the other hand, claims that since ancient Arabia was also known as Ethiopia, they could have just as well come from that country
The Anzac troops upon arriving in Egypt during WWI
“My God, we didn’t know the Egyptians were niggers!”
Colossi of Memnon
These are two colossal seated statues of Pharaoh Amenhotep III in western Thebes. At dawn, the northern statue emitted a whistling sound. Ancient Greeks who visited the statue called it the ‘vocal Memnon’, thinking the figure represented the Homeric character Memnon, singing to his mother Eos, the goddess of the dawn.
Memnon was an Ethiopian king who went to troy to help Priam, his uncle, and was killed by Achilles.
To the Ancient Greeks; Egyptian – Ethiopian – same thing
Even the 5000-year-old Narmer palette: Egypt’s first monument, has signs that, “are essentially African,” as reported by G. Mokhtar and J. Vercoutier.
The Egyptians as They Saw Themselves
It is no waste of time to get the views of those principally concerned. How did the ancient Egyptians see themselves? Into which ethnic category did they put themselves? What did they call themselves? The language and literature left to us by the Egyptians of the Pharaonic epoch supply explicit answers to these questions which the scholars cannot refrain from minimizing, twisting or ‘interpreting.’
The Egyptians had only one term to designate themselves: [hieroglyphics]=kmt=the negroes (literally).44 This is the strongest term existing in the Pharaonic tongue to indicate blackness; it is accordingly written with a hieroglyph representing a length of wood charred at the end and not crocodile scales.45 This word is the etymological origin of the well-known root Kamit which has proliferated in modern anthropological literature. The biblical root kam is probably derived from it and it has therefore been necessary to distort the facts to enable this root today to mean ‘white’ in Egyptological terms whereas, in the Pharaonic mother tongue which gave it birth, it meant ‘coal black.’
In the Egyptian language, a word of assembly is formed from an adjective or a noun by putting it in the feminine singular. ‘kmt’ from the adjective [hieroglyphics] =km=black; it therefore means strictly negroes or at the very least black men. The term is a collective noun which thus described the whole people of Pharaonic Egypt as a black people.
In other words, on the purely grammatical plane, if one wishes to indicate negroes in the Pharaonic tongue, one cannot use any other word than the very one which the Egyptians used of themselves. Furthermore, the language offers us another term, [hieroglyphics] kmtjw=the negroes, the black men (literally)=the Egyptians, as opposed to ‘foreigners’ which comes from the same root km and which the Egyptians also used to describe themselves as a people as distinguished from all foreign peoples.46 These are the only adjectives of nationality used by the Egyptians to designate themselves and both mean ‘negro’ or ‘black’ in the Pharonic language. Scholars hardly ever mention them or when they do it is to translate them by euphemisms such as the ‘Egyptians’ while remaining completely silent about their etymological sense.47 They prefer the expression [hieroglyphics] Rmt kmt=the men of the country of the black men or the men of the black country.
In Egyptian, words are normally followed by a determinative which indicates their exact sense, and for this particuar expression Egyptologists suggest that [heiroglyphics] km=black and that the colour qualifies the determinative which follows it and which signifies ‘country’. Accordingly, they claim, the translation should be ‘the black earth’ from the colour of the loam, or the ‘black country’, and not ‘the country of the black men’ as we should be inclined to render it today with black Africa and white Africa in mind. Perhaps so, but if we apply this rule rigorously to [hieroglyphics] =kmit, we are forced to ‘concede that here the adjective “black” qualifies the determinative which signifies the whole people of Egypt shown by the two symbols for “man” and “woman” and the three strokes below them which indicate the plural’. Thus, if it is possible to voice a doubt as regards the expression [hieroglyphics] =Kme, it is not possible to do so in the case of the two adjectives of nationality [hieroglyphics] kmt and kmtjw unless one is picking one’s arguments completely at random.
It is a remarkable circumstance that the ancient Egyptians should never have had the idea of applying these qualificatives to the Nubians and other populations of Africa to distinguish them from themselves; any more than a Roman at the apogee of the empire could use a ‘colour’ adjective to distinguish himself from the Germani on the other bank of the Danube, of the same stock but still in the prehistoric age of development.
In either case both sides were of the same world in terms of physical anthropology, and accordingly the distinguishing terms used related to level of civilization or moral sense. For the civilized Romans, the Germans, of the same stock, were barbarians. The Egyptians used the expression [hieroglyphics] =na-has to designate the Nubians; and nahas48 is the name of a people, with no colour connotation in Egyptian. it is a deliberate mistranslation to render it as negro as is done in almost all present-day publications.
Four peoples of the world:
Syrian, Nubian, Libyan, and Egyptian. From the tomb of Seti I.
Seti I King of Ancient Kemet (1294-1279 BCE), the 2nd ruler of the 19th Dynasty. Below the mummy of Seti I. Now, ask yourself does this look like a mummified White man or a mummified melanated Black man?
Foreign prisoners of Ramesses III:
Libyan, Nubian, Syrian, Shasu Bedouin, and Hittite.
Faience tiles from the royal palace at Medinet Habu. Deptictting the peoples of contact from the Pharoah Ramses III
Ramsees III (1183-1152 BCE)
Race is a notoriously nebulous concept. Before a physical property can be scientifically examined, it must be objectively defined so that accurate measurements of variables can be made. Defining race has been based on subjective taxonomic classification, morphological interpretation, and physiognomic characteristics, exercises that are frighteningly akin to phrenology. Race has yet to be defined in objective genetic terms that are quantifiably measurable, rendering attempts at truly scientific discussion hopelessly futile.
The fact remains that the human race is of a single species.
“Race is a social construct, not a scientific classification,” Robert S. Schwartz, M.D. wrote (in “Race Is a Poor Measure,” New England Journal of Medicine, Vol. 344, No. 18, May 3, 2001). “Any attempt to establish lines of division among biological populations is both arbitrary and subjective.” The Human Genome Project determined that 99.9% of the human genetic complement is the same in everyone, regardless of race. This means that the DNA of any two people will differ in one out of every thousand nucleotides, the building blocks of individual genes. With more than 3 billion nucleotides in the human genome, about 3 million nucleotides will differ among individuals. While statistically small, this does allow for some variation. “Admittedly,” wrote Dr. Sally Satel, “race is a rough marker. A black American may have dark skin – but his or her genes may well be a complex mix of ancestors from west Africa, Europe and Asia. No serious scientist, in fact, believes that genetically pure populations exist. Yet an imprecise clue is better than no clue at all.” (“A question of colour” in The Guardian, 9 May 2002) But these differences between people are relatively insignificant: skin pigment, eye shape, and hair texture. The physical “stereotypes” of race, Luigi Luca Cavalli-Sforza wrote in The History and Geography of Human Genes, “reflect superficial differences.”
This said, we might ask, “What color were the ancient Egyptians?” Being on the continent, Egypt has always been an African civilization though it straddles two regions, Africa and the Middle East. It’s fairly clear that the cultural roots of ancient Egypt lie in Africa and not in Asia. Egypt was a subtropical desert environment and its people had migrated from various ethnic groups over its history (and prehistory), thus it was something of a “melting pot,” a mixture of many types of people with many skin tones, some certainly from the Sub-Saharan regions and others from more Mediterranean climes. It is impossible to categorize these people into the tidy “black” and “white” terms of today’s racial distinctions. The Egyptians are better classified using evidence of their language and their material cultures, historical records, and their physical remains because so-called “racial” identification has been elusive, much for the reasons cited above. Skulls have been measured and compared and DNA tests attempted in various forms, but conclusions are few. Skulls are more similar to those found in the Northern Sudan and less similar to those found in West Africa, Palestine, and Turkey. It seems that there has been some genetic continuity from Predynastic time through the Middle Kingdom, after which there was a considerable infiltration into the Nile Valley from outside populations. That the Egyptians by and large were dark is certain, and many must have been what we today call “black.”
It is apparent that the ancient Egyptians did not make racial distinctions themselves, but rather ethnic distinctions based on nationality. Tomb paintings depicting captive Nubians may show them as being very dark, but this is an artistic convention stereotyping a nationality, and to conclude there were therefore no very dark Egyptians would be a non sequitur. Similarly, the skin tones in art depicting the Egyptians themselves adhere to convention rather than an absolutely accurate description of reality. Tutankhamun is variously shown as being black as in the guardian statues found in his tomb, and brown or beige as in the lotus bust.
Tutankhamun
© Photo copyright Francesco De Luca,
in Tiradritti, Egyptian Treasures,
1999, p. 205
Tutankhamun
© Photo copyright Francesco De Luca,
in Tiradritti, Egyptian Treasures,
1999, p. 230
Since we are dealing with historical sources and authorities, a study of the researches of Sir Henry Rawlinson, the Father of Assyriology, on the Ethiopians in the ancient East, is in order. The following extract is condensed from an essay entitled: On the Early History of Babylonia:
1. The system of writing which they brought with them has the closest affinity with that of Egypt—in many cases indeed, there is an absolute identity between the two alphabets.
2. In the Biblical genealogies, Cush (Ethiopia) and Mizraim (Egypt) are brothers, while from the former sprang Nimrod (Babylonia.)
3. In regard to the language of the primitive Babylonians, the vocabulary is undoubtedly Cushite or Ethiopian, belonging to that stock of tongues which in the sequel were everywhere more or less mixed up with the Semitic languages, but of which we have probably the purest modern specimens in the Mahra of Southern Arabia and the Galla of Abyssinia.
4. All the traditions of Babylonia and Assyria point to a connection in very early times between Ethiopia, Southern Arabia and the cities on the lower Euphrates.
5. In further proof of the connection between Ethiopia and Chaldea, we must remember the Greek tradition both of Cepheus and Memnon, which sometimes applied to Africa, and sometimes to the countries at the mouth of the Euphrates; and we must also consider the geographical names of Cush and Phut, which, although of African origin, are applied to races bordering on Chaldea, both in the Bible and in the Inscriptions of Darius. (Essay-VI, Appendix, Book-I, History of Herodotus, translated by Professor George Rawlinson, with essays and notes by Sir Henry Rawlinson and Sir J. G. Wilkinson.)
The opinions of Sir Henry Rawlinson are reinforced by the researches of his equally distinguished brother, Professor George Rawlinson, in his essay On the Ethnic Affinities of the Races of Western Asia, which directs our attention to: “the uniform voice of primitive antiquity, which spoke of the Ethiopians as a single race, dwelling along the shores of the Southern Ocean from India to the Pillars of Hercules.” (Herodotus, Vol. I., Book. I., Appendix, Essay XI., Section-5.) Rawlinson adds an explanatory note to this section of his essay, which we here reproduce: “Recent linguistic discovery tends to show that a Cushite or Ethiopian race did in the earliest times extend itself along the shores of the Southern Ocean from Abyssinia to India. The whole peninsula of India was peopled by a race of their character before the influx of the Aryans; it extended from the Indus along the seacoast through the modern Beluchistan and Kerman, which was the proper country of the Asiatic Ethiopians; the cities on the northern shores of the Persian Gulf are shown by the brick inscriptions found among their ruins to have belonged to this race; it was dominant in Susiana and Babylonia, until overpowered in the one country by Aryan, in the other by Semitic intrusion; it can be traced both by dialect and tradition throughout the whole south coast of the Arabian peninsula.”
In the study of ancient affairs, folklore and tradition throw an invaluable light on historical records. In Greek mythology we read of the great Ethiopian king, Cepheus, whose fame was so great that he and his family were immortalized in the stars. The wife of King Cepheus was Queen Cassiopeia, and his daughter, Princess Andromeda. The star groups of the celestial sphere, which are named after them are called the ROYAL FAMILY—(the constellations: CEPHEUS, CASSIOPEIA and ANDROMEDA.) It may seem strange that legendary rulers of ancient Ethiopia should still have their names graven on our star maps, but the voice of history gives us a clue. A book on astrology attributed to Lucian declares that: “The Ethiopians were the first who invented the science of stars, and gave names to the planets, not at random and without meaning, but descriptive of the qualities which they conceived them to possess; and it was from them that this art passed, still in an imperfect state, to the Egyptians.” The Ethiopian origin of astronomy is beautifully explained by Count Volney in a passage in his Ruins of Empires, which is one of the glories of modern literature, and his argument is not based on guesses. He invokes the weighty authority of Charles F. Dupuis, whose three monumental works, The Origin of Constellations, The Origin of Worship and The Chronological Zodiac, are marvels of meticulous research. Dupuis placed the origin of the zodiac as far back as 15,000 B.C., which would give the world’s oldest picture book an antiquity of 17,000 years. (This estimate is not as excessive as it might at first appear, since the American ast5ronomer and mathematician, Professor Arthur M. Harding, traces back the origin of the zodiac to about 26,000 B.C) In discussing star worship and idolatry, Volney gives the following glowing description of the scientific achievements of the ancient Ethiopians, and of how they mapped out the signs of the zodiac on the star-spangled dome of the heavens:
Should it be asked at what epoch this system took its birth, we shall answer on the testimony of the monuments of astronomy itself, that its principles appear with certainty to have been established about seventeen thousand years ago, and if it be asked to what people it is to be attributed, we shall answer that the same monuments, supported by unanimous traditions, attribute it to the first tribes of Egypt; and reason finds in that country all the circumstances which could lead to such a system; when it finds there a zone of sky, bordering on the tropic, equally free from the rains of the equator and the fogs of the north; when it finds there a central point of the sphere of the ancients, a salubrious climate, a great but manageable river, a soil fertile without art or labor, inundated without morbid exhalations, and placed between two seas which communicate with the richest countries; it conceives that the inhabitant of the Nile, addicted to agriculture from the facility of communications, to astronomy from the state of his sky, always open to observation, must have been the first to pass from the savage to the social state; and consequently to attain the physical and moral sciences necessary to civilized life.
It was, then, on the borders of the upper Nile, among a black race of men, that was organized the complicated system of the worship of the stars, considered in relation to the productions of the earth and the labors of agriculture. … Thus the Ethiopian of Thebes named stars of inundation, or Aquarius, those stars under which the Nile began to overflow; stars of the ox or bull, those under which they began to plow, stars of the lion, those under which that animal, driven from the desert by thirst, appeared on the banks of the Nile; stars of the sheaf, or of the harvest virgin, those of the reaping season; stars of the lamb, stars of the two kids, those under which these precious animals were brought forth. … Thus the same Ethiopian having observed that the return of the inundation always corresponded with the rising of a beautiful star which appeared towards the source of the Nile, and seemed to warn the husbandman against the coming waters, he compared this action to that of the animal who, by his barking, gives notice of danger, and he called this star the dog, the barker (Sirius). In the same manner he named the stars of the crab, those where the sun, having arrived at the tropic, retreated by a slow retrograde motion like the crab of Cancer. He named stars of the wild goat, or Capricorn, those where the sun, having reached the highest point in his annuary tract, … imitates the goat, who delights to climb to the summit of the rocks. He named stars of the balance, or Libra, those where the days and nights being equal, seemed in equilibrium, like that instrument; and stars of the scorpion, those where certain periodical winds bring vapors, burning like the venom of the scorpion. (Volney’s Ruins of Empires, pp. 120–122, New York, 1926)John G Jackson (1930)
The traditions concerning Memnon are interesting as well as instructive. He was claimed as a king by the Ethiopians, and identified with the Pharaoh Amunoph or Amenhotep, by the Egyptians. A fine statue of him is located in the British Museum, in London. Charles Darwin makes a reference to this statue on his Descent of Man which is well worth reproducing: “When I looked at the statue of Amunoph III, I agreed with two officers of the establishment, both competent judges, that he had a strongly marked Negro type of features.” The features of Akhnaton (Amennhotep IV), are even more Negroid than those of his illustrious predecessor. That the earliest Egyptians were African Ethiopians (Nilotic Negroes), is obvious to all unbiased students of oriental history.John G Jackson (1930)
We read of Memnon, King of Ethiopia, in Greek mythology, to be exact in Homer’s Iliad, where he leads an army of Elamites and Ethiopians to the assistance of King Priam in the Trojan War. His expedition is said to have started from the African Ethiopia and to have passed through Egypt on the way to Troy. According to Herodotus, Memnon was the founder of Susa, the chief city of the Elamites. “There were places called Memnonia,” asserts Professor Rawlinson, “supposed to have been built by him both in Egypt and at Susa; and there was a tribe called Memnones at Moroe. Memnon thus unites the eastern with the western Ethiopians, and the less we regard him as an historical personage the more must we view him as personifying the ethnic identity of the two races.” (Ancient Monarchies, Vol. I, Chap. 3.)
March 25, 2009 at 11:34 pm |
Sunchild- your whole diatribe does NOT once present ANY DNA proof to substantiate your standing.The late Dr. Cheikh Anta Diop, although an excellent scholar, was a racialist.His melanin dosage testing was NOT infallible, especially when it comes to corpses thousands of year old. The test is inappropriate to apply to ancient Egyptian mummies, due to the effects of embalming and deterioration over time. The Negritos(Adamese) as an example, have Negroid features and skin coloring, but ONLY Asian, NO Black DNA (haploid groups). By the melanin dosage test, they, most likely, be classified as Black. Th ancient Olmecs actually have feaures of all five ethnicities, but appear to be peoples in their own classification. Because one is dark does not automatically place them in the Black ethnicity. The Black Nubians(some Nilotics) are the ones you see living among the Arab Semitic White, Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Because one lives in, originates in Africa, does not mean the people were Black(read article-Cro Magnon man and Maghereb peoples). Most peoples vary more among their own ethnicity than they do from other ethnicities. I have acknowledged admixtures-King Tut and Anwar Sadat. For practical opinion, Dr. Diop, has some distinctly looking Semitic features, paticularly, high forehead, Semitic nose, thinner lips and receded chin and in all likely hood was mixed, himself.Sudan is half Arab, Ethiopia and Somalia is 1/3 Arab. I have also acknowledged the admixtures(Moors, Berers, Hamites)in Egypt-that does not make Egypt Black. Nubia was Kemet, not Egypt-in reference to Egypt, it was the soil, not the peoples. You mentioned the Seti I mural-that is the Ancient Egyptian “Book of the Gates” mentioned in the article. There is no reason for Blacks to appropriate Arab Semitic White ethnicity and history. They have the ancient advanced Black Nok(in present day Nigeria) to be proud of for being among the first to smelt metals, pottery work, and use advanced agriculural techniques.Bottom line, afro centrists refuse to recognize anything Arab.
April 23, 2009 at 10:54 pm |
my complexion is that of the khemetian(brown skin) in the mural from seti’s tomb. I dare you to call me white. I have a daughter who is light skin from a mother who complexion is brown like mines. I dare you to call her white. I have family members who are dark like the nubian. Your position is foolish. Black people come in shades from Dark black all the way to light bright damn near white. Even the ones whose complextions look white still have black in them. Notice that in this mural the khemetians looks more related to the nubian then the other. Why do i say that is because in america if you see these 2 people in the same room you will say that 2 black poeple are in that room. Now if you say that the khemetian in this mural is a arab semetic white Id have to slap the sxxt out of you for that non sense. show me a arab semetic white persons whose complexion is brown like that. Whats this nose stuff all about. Black people have noses of various sizes and shapes from flat to pointie. they have hair texture ranging from Kinky to straight. You ever see people from india? they are black to. Ever seen guyanese they are black to. And there shades vary from dark black to light bright. Yall on some bs Nubians are not all dark black. their shades vary to. I have seen a white person born of 2 black people have you seen the reverse(black person born from 2 white people)? Zahi said the egyptians are not black nubians thats right, just like they are not the black or white asiatic we know that. Just like they are not egyptians fool. They did not call themselves egyptians(zahi over look this fact) egypt is a greek work. They were khemetians and zahi must be losing his mind by saying they were arab semitic whites. that brown skin brother with my complextion damn sure ain’t white he is a part of the black family bottom line. He might be of the arab semetic black people. but he damn sure don’t fit in the white catagory. If you think so your are blind and in denial of the truth. DNA is still in its infancy theres still more to be learned so don’t act like its all been master you babies in it. This topic is old, you white folks trying to hold on to your white superiority complex but its over. You ain’t the founders of civilization nor are you the original people of the planet. Hell you ain’t even the majority population of the planet earth so stop it. El
April 24, 2009 at 7:14 am |
El, from your comment, I assume you are Black. FIRST, Arab Semitic Whites ARE NOT Black based on both DNA haploid markers and anthropological measurements of which, so far, most of the known mummies are. Some as, pointed out, are the Black Nubians(some Nilotics to) and Black/Arab mixes-Berbers, Moors, and Hamites. There are many dark skinned peoples whom are NOT Black. The Adamese(Negritos) of the Phillipines, have Black features, but NO Black, ONLY ASIAN, heritage/ haploid markers. DNA testing has grown beyond the infancy stage and ethnicity can now be determoned very accurately and precisely. James Watson, DNA researcher, had a very negative attitude about Blacks in society and their intellectual abilities-that is-until DNA testing showed he was 73% Indo European Aryan White, 16% Black, and 9% Asian. The ancient Olmecs have characteristics of ALL the ethnicities, but genetic markers not fitting any of the ethnicities-many eexperts want to include them as a new ethnicity by themselves. Skin tone is a minor determinant in ethnic determination.The following I say without prejudice. I have never known any light skinned people with Black traits to be fully Black. I have dated women, and have friends across the spectrum and am very proud of this.Of the peoples of Africa-40% of those identified as Black have White(Arab and/or Indo European Aryan Ancestry. In the US, the percentages run as high as 70%, and, through in some American Indian. Skin, hair and eye color differences are due to a gene mutation occuring 11,000-15,000 years ago.Before this, ith is believed most peoples had an olive(golden brown) skin color, and Black or brown hair and eyes. I have three mixed ethnicity friends- two with Irish(White) fathers and Black mothers, and one with a Black father and an Irish(White). They all have very pale blue eyes, very light freckled skin, and straw colored light red, kinky hair. Their bone structure is of their Black heritage. If they had dark hair, eyes, and skin, there would be NO question they were Black-imagine Bill Cosby with the above features and you would know what I mean. When ever we are in red neck territory, many Whites and even some Blacks, give them a distinctly hateful look, but have NO idea how to react because they are lighter(very near Albino) than most Caucasians.Generally, Black features dominate until the heritage drops below 25%-these most often can pass as White-the late Dinah Shore had a Black baby in the 1940’s. She and her husband nearly divorced over it(later, they did for other reasons). Her husband had thought she had an affair with one of many Black men she sang with. It turns out she had some Black ancestry in her, her parents never informed her of. She sued her father(mother had died before she learned of this) over it.Also, if you read the article, two forms of Homo sapiens lived in Africa about the same time-modern humans being the subclassification Homo sapiens sapiens. They were(both extinct), Idaltu(had Negroid/Black features) and Cro Magnon(had Caucasoid/White features). Neither was assigned an ethnicity.I have disagreed with the experts on King Tut’s ethnicity and believe he is of mixed heritage.You might find it helpful to either take an Anthropology course, and/or read a book or two on it to enlighten yourself. Do you realize the reason for the war in Sudan? The indigent Black Sudanese feel the immigrant Arab Semitic Whites are spreading too fast and wish to annex Sudan(remainder of ancient Nubia/Kemit-Egypt annexed part of it in 1520 B.C. to make up the lower southwestern quarter of Egypt). Some of the Black Sudanese have learned Arabic and accepted Islam and Arab culture-they are called the Janjaweed and are often erroneous called Black Arabs(basically saying they are Black Whites). They have taken to killingtheir own Black Sudanese ethnicity. The black Sudanese, rightfully, call them traitors. Blacks have plenty to be proud of-look up Nok(500 B.C.-200 A.D.-700 years) in present day Nigeria. It was Black, advanced in pottery making, statue carving, herbal medicine, smeltin metals, and using advanced agricultural techniques. The Black Nubians wer also Pharoahs in Egypt from 800-700 B.C..
April 25, 2009 at 10:07 pm |
You must know the wyllie lynch program. Im going to try to make this simlpe Yes i am recognized as black even though my skin complextions is brown like the brother khemetian on the mural. He is brown. which is definitely a part of the black family. Now as i said before, show me a white semitic arab. When you say white you are talking about white people. Europeans are classified as caucasians which mean white. If you don’t know by now the haplotypes for white are haplotype 15, not 5, 4, 11. Also the white skin complextion is a product of a mutated gene slc24a5 preventing the melanosomes within the melanocytes from producing melanin from where that Dark black brother and the Brown brother in the mural get there complextion from. Your half black and half white friends are also apart of the black family. Although they have the white gene in them they still are not white. In our language they are classified as black. Say a person had 7 great grandparents that were black and 1 that was white. Would you say that person was white or black? You must think that arab means white and semitic means white. If skin complextions don’t matter to you you sure seem to be using that term SEMETIC WHITE ARABS ALOT when refering to the khemetians. If you think genetics is not still in its infancy, then show me which genes give some black people a black complextion and others a brown complextion and others a yellow complextion. show me the black and brown gene that is in the blackmans body. Just because a blackman may be darker and another lighter does not mean that they where mixed with white people. If the various shades of the black family are not a part of what makes us black, Then what makes a black person black?
April 26, 2009 at 1:00 am |
El-DNA test has also shown that all Semites carry J1 or J2, both of which are from J. J (Y-DNA) mutation is 30,000 years old originated in Yemen (according to some historians).Blacks DO NOT carry these. You are confusing dark skin with being Black-NOT true. The people of Kemit were Black NOT Arab Semitic White-again you confuse the two ethnicities-do you realise southern Ind European Aryan Whites(i.e-Greeks, Romans, Southern Italians, Iranians/Persians(NOT Arabs), Tamils of India(very dark Brown), Sotherns Germans) have the same olive(golden brown) skin tone and their features resemble Arabs enough that the two are often confused for each other?I KNOW you will say they are mixed-DNA testing shows NO BLACK heritage in these peoples. Did you read my previous answers on the Olmecs and the Adamese(Negritos) of the Phillipines(NO BLACK DNA markers) The Seti I mural is in the Egyptian Book of the Gates in the article-the Ancient Egyptians(brown) delineate themselves from the Black Nubians.
Does Bill Cosby(Black American) look like he falls in the same ethnic group as Jamie Farr(Arab American)-surly even you can tell they do not.How do YOU tell Blacks fom Whites other than skin color-you know as well as I do- they have different facial and skull features-Michael Jackson is a perfect example of an Artificial transformation- lets say he had a medium brown skin tone all the way through-I know he did not, but hestarted out looking Black and ended up looking White. In The article, he was about midway through the transformation, and, actually looked quite a bit like King Tut(see the article again). Surely, you would guess half way through, he was not full Black, nor, full White-REGARDLESS of genetics-he was surgically and using drugs transformed into a White person. I seriously recommend you read the eye opening book , “Black Like Me”.
Black Like Me is a non-fiction book by journalist John Howard Griffin first published in 1961. Griffin was a white native of Mansfield, Texas and the book describes his six-week experience travelling on Greyhound busses (occasionally hitchhiking) throughout the racially segregated states of Louisiana, Mississippi, Alabama and Georgia passing as a black man. Sepia Magazine financed the project in exchange for the right to print the account first as a series of articles.
Griffin kept a journal of his experiences; the 188-page diary was the genesis of the book.
In 1959, at the time of the book’s writing, race relations were particularly strained in North America; Griffin’s aim was to explain the difficulties facing black people in certain areas. To expedite this, under the care of a doctor, Griffin artificially darkened his skin to pass as a black man.
In the autumn of 1959, John Howard Griffin checked into the Monteleone Hotel, located at 214 Royal Street in New Orleans, Louisiana. Once there, under the care of a dermatologist, Griffin underwent a regimen of large oral doses of the anti-vitiligo drug Oxsoralen and spending up to fifteen hours daily under an ultraviolet lamp. (Vitiligo is a disease that causes lightening of the skin and is most noticeable among people of African ancestry.)
To complete the illusion, Griffin used dyes to cover uneven areas and closely cropped his hair.
During his trip Griffin made it a rule that he would not change his name or alter his identity; if asked who he was or what he was doing, he would tell the truth. In the beginning, he decided to talk as little as possible[4] to ease his transition into the “black world”, i.e., the social milieu of southern U.S. blacks. He became accustomed everywhere to the “hate stare” received from whites.
After he disguised himself, many people who knew John Howard Griffin as a white man did not recognize him. A shoeshine man named Sterling Williams in the French Quarter, a man whom Griffin regarded as a friend, made no connection with his looks now that he was black. The only way Sterling realized it was Griffin was because he recognized his shoes, and Griffin opened up to him, explaining his research.I know you ARE Black, but it will give you a different perspective on a different Era.
Also, a case in the legagal system. Mostafa Hefny is a BLACK Nubians living in Arab Semitic White Egypt. He immigrated to the US. In Egypt, they classified him as Black, but the US correctly classifies Egyptians as Arab Semitic White.Problem was, Hefny was Egyptian by nationality, Black by ethnicity.The US classified him as White. He sued to be reclassified as Black:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/16/racial.suit/
In the Sudan, the indigenous Black Sudanese and immigrant Arab Semitic Whites are at war with each other for ethnic cleansing. The Black Sudanes feel the immigrant Arab Semitic Whites are spreading too fast and intend on annexing Sudan(the remainder of Nubia/Kemit) to Egypt as happened with the other portion in 1521 B.C.. Some of the Black Sudanese have sided with the Arab Semitic Whites, accepting Islam,Arab culture and learning Arabic. These Black Sudanese are called Janjaweed(often erroneously called Black Arabs-no such thingthere are mixed Black/Arab Semitic White-the Berbers, Moors, and Hamites-see article).The Janjaweed ,Black Sudanese, are killing their own Black Sudanese ethnicity, and the Black Sudanese consider them traitors, and, rightfully so.It might be well worth your while to take , or, self educate yourself in Anthropology.
May 1, 2009 at 5:30 pm |
Nature you make me laugh with some of the stuff you have posted. Haplotypes and haplogroups. Im going to respond with that info momentarily. But for now i still want you to show me a ARAB SEMETIC WHITE PERSON. which you still haven’t yet. And asnwer my question, what are the traits that determine if a person is black or not? Don’t avoide the question just honestly answer it.
May 1, 2009 at 8:00 pm |
El, did you NOT read the article-I did give examples-I am guessing you want some that have lighter skin-here it goes:
Abraham Kazen Jr. – Congressman /Texas
Anthony Solomon: State treasurer / Rohde Island
Benjamin C. Baroody: State representative: New Hampshire
Brenda Elias: Mayor / Franklin, New Hampshire
Brian Wahby: Assistant city treasurer / St. Louis, MO
Chris Abboud: State Senator / Nebraska
Chris John – Congressman / Louisiana
Daniel Issa: State Senator / Rohde Island
Darrell Issa: Congressman / California
David Cappiello: State Representative / Connecticut
David Karem: State Senator / Kentucky
Don Korrey: County commissioner / Logan County, CO
Donna Shlela: Secretary of Health and Human Services
Edward Gabriel: U.S. Ambassador / Morocco
Edward J. Elum, Jr.: Judge / Massillon, OH
Elias Francis: Lieutenant Governor / New Mexico
Francis Slay: Mayor / St. Louis
George Crady: State Representative / Florida
George Ellis: Judge / Texas court of appeals
George Kasem: State Congressman / California
George Latimer: Mayor / St. Paul Minnesota
George Mitchell: Congressman / Maine
George Mowad – Mayor / Oakdale, LA
George Shadid: State Senator / Illinois
Harry Meshel: State Senator / Ohio
Helen Bishara Huey: City Council / Houston, TX
Henry W. Saad / Michigan Court of Appeals Judge / President George W. Bush’s nominee to the 6th Circuit Court Of Appeals.
Herb Mocol – Mayor / Mankato, MN
James Abdnor: Senator / South Dakota
James Abourezk: Senator / South Dakota
James J. Tayoun: City Council / Philadelphia, PA
James Kaddo: Judge / Supreme Court of California
James Maloof: Mayor / Peoria, IL
Jean Shaheen: Governor / New Hampshire
Jeannie A. Gregory: City Clerk / South Pasadena, CA
Jeanine F Pirro, Born Jeanine Ferris / Westchester County Dist Attorney / Running for Hillary Clinton Senator Seat in New York in 2006
Joan Haddad Saliba: Mayor / Hartwell, GA
Joe Farris: State Delegate / West Virginia
John Akouri: City Councilman / Farmington, MI
John Ash – Mayor / Olean, NY
John Baldacci: Congressman / Maine
John E. Sununu: Senator / New Hampshire
John Sununu: Governer / Hampshire Also White House Chief of Staff
Joseph Nahra: Judge / Court of Appeals, Ohio
Joseph P. Ganim: Mayor / Bridgeport, CT
Lee Namey: Mayor / Wilkes-Barre, PA
Michael J. Jarjura: State Representative / Connecticut
Nick Joe Rahall II: Congressman / West Virginia
Pat Danner: Congresswoman / Missouri
Pete Karem: Chief Justice / Circuit Court Jefferson County, KY
Philip Habib: U.S. Ambassador and Presidential Envoy / Middle east
Ralph Nader: Presidential candidate and consumer advocate
Randel C. Shadid: Mayor / Edmond, OK
Ray LaHood: Congressman / Illinois
Richard Iyoub: Attorney General / Louisiana
Richard Thomas: County Commission Chairman / Hampden County, MA
Rose Allan Tucker: County Commission Chairwoman / Luzerne County, PA
Ruth Joseph: Mayor / Waterville, MA
Selwa Roosevelt: Chief of Protocol / White House
Spencer Abraham: Secretary of Energy/ White House
Stephen Kafoury: State Senator / Oregon
Steven Kfoury: City Council President / Lawrence, MA
Suzanne Azar: Mayor / El Paso, TX
Teresa Issac: Vice Mayor / Lexington, KY
Thomas A. Nassif: U.S. Ambassador / Morocco
Thomas Lazieh: Mayor / Central Falls, Rohde Island
Timothy Bryan: City Council / Massillon, OH
Toby Moffett: Congressional Member / Connecticut
Tracy A. Yokich: State Representative / Michigan
Victor Atiyeh: Governor / Oregon
William A. Hamzy: State Representative / Connecticut
William N. Aswad: State Representative / Vermont
TRAITS
Negroid(Black) characteristics – broad and round nasal cavity; no dam or nasal sill; Quonset hut-shaped nasal bones; notable facial projection in the jaw and mouth area (non medical prognathism); a rectangular-shaped palate; a square or rectangular eye orbit shape; and large, megadontic teeth. Thick lips, flat, medium to broad nose, almond shaped medium to large, eyes, medium brown to almost black skin, medium to thick, kinky hair- shades of black to brown, broad, high cheek bones, and a prominent occipital protuberance. Larger lower lumbar curvature, more prominent fatty pads of the buttocks(particularly women-Hottentot women is very exaggerated)
Caucasoid(White) characteristics – have no prognathism (a receded chin); a notable size prominence of the cranium and forehead region; a narrow, tear-shaped nasal cavity; a “silled” nasal aperture; tower-shaped nasal bones; a triangular-shaped palate; and an angular and sloping elliptical eye orbit shape. small teeth.Thin to medium lips,small to medium, narrow noses(Semites-MOST often very large and very prominent),elliptical small to medium eyes, light to olive(golden brown) skin(especially Semites and southern Europeans-the Tamils of India, have very dark brown skin), thin to medium fine straight to wavy hair ( rarely curly) any color. Shallow narrow, low to medium bones and a small or no existent external occipital protuberance. Small to medium lower lumbar curvature, small to medium fatty pads of the buttock.
There is some natural, but, not significant variation. When it is significant, it is due to admixture. Blacks do not have the genes for different hair, eye, and skin color(in Whites, actually due to gene mutations occurring 11,000 to 13,000 years ago)-when it does occur in “so called” Blacks, it is due to admixture and/or genetic
mutation. In America, 70 % of the % “Blacks” and 30 % of the “Whites are admixed. In Africa, about 70 % of the”Blacks” mixed and 40% of the “Whites” are mixed are. Ethiopians, Somalians, and, Sudanese(Sudan is actually part of Arab Semitic White North Africa-Sudan is 50 % Arab), have more Caucasian features due to mixing with Arabs-the late Anwar Sadat(Egyptian), models Iman(Somalian), and Lila Kebede(Ethiopian), have Arab Semitic White fathers and Black mothers.
May 1, 2009 at 11:23 pm |
NATURES LINK The following link also shows the DNA pattern of Ancient and Modern Egyptians whom were Arab Semitic White, NOT Black or even Hamitic(long outdated and proven wrong):
NATURE CONTINUES
WHERE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS BLACK OR WHITE ?
This question very often, quickly becomes muddled in confusion. Both Ancient and Modern Egyptians were/are Arab Semitic White (65% of Egypt’s )….. AGAIN NATURE SAYS FIRST, Arab Semitic Whites ARE NOT Black based on both DNA haploid markers and anthropological….. THEN NATURE RESPONDS TO MY COMMENT SAYINGThe people of Kemit were Black NOT Arab Semitic White-again you confuse the two ethnicities-do you realise southern Ind…. OF COURSE THE PEOPLE OF KEMET WERE BLACK NATURE THATS WHAT THE COMMENTS HAVE BEEN SAYING TO YOU. YOU AGREE, WE AGREE CASE CLOSED. Now as for these list of americans that you have given me, are you saying they are from arabia? Or do they speak arabic. what is a arab? AND SHOW ME THE WHITE SEMETIC ARAB IN THE BOOK OF GATES FROM THE MURAL OF SETI. IF ONE OF THEM WHITE FELLOWS ON THE MURAL IS LABLED A WHITE SEMETIC IT SURE AIN’T THE KHEMETIAN, THIS WE KNOW FOR SURE CAUSE THE BROWN SKIN BROTHER IS NOT WHITE. I AGREE WITH YOU THERE MAY HAVE BEEN SOME WHITE SEMITES THERE AND MAYBE EVEN SOME BLACK SEMITES. BUT THE ONE THAT IS KHEMETIAN DOESN’T FIT IN THAT CATAGORY DOES HE? I’LL TELL YOU WHAT, SHOW ME SOME OF THE MURALS OF THESE WHITE ARAB SEMETICS IN KHEMET AND I’LL SHOW YOU THE WHITES THAT WERE CLASSIFIED AS FOREIGNERS IN KHEMET. I KNOW YOU WILL SAY THAT THE NUBIAN IS A FOREIGNER AS WELL. HOW EVER IN OUR HOODS HE JUST ANOTHER BROTHER FROM THE HOODS. YOU STILL HAVE NOT SHOWED ME THE GENES THAT MAKES ONE BLACK PERSON DARK BROWN ANOTHER BROWN ANOTHER LIGHT BROWN AND ANOTHER YELLOW. Are you attributing this to mixing of races? I checked your comparisons between greeks, romans, southern italians, etc…with the tamils of india. Again your are trying to call our brothers and sisters caucasiod. Amoungst the tamil’s i saw a sea of black people with straight hair and this is not because of white blood in them. then i looked at pictures of people in southern germany found 1 brown skin sister and 1 black skin sister amoungst a sea of what we would classify as WHITE FOLKS. same with greeks and southern italians. Its like a black dot on a white page. In other words the majoritity population in those european countries you named are white and not brown and black skinned. NATURE SAYS ALSO El-DNA test has also shown that all Semites carry J1 or J2, both of which are from J. J (Y-DNA) mutation is 30,000 years old originated in Yemen (according to some historians).BLACKS DO NOT CARRY THESE. You are confusing dark skin with being Black-NOT true. OK NATURE LET ME NAME JUST OF FEW OF MY BLACK BROTHERS THAT RANGE FROM JET BLACK TO LIGHT SKIN THAT HAVE THESE J1 IN THERE DNA. THE BROTHERS FROM NORTH AFRICA AND ETHIOPIA THE J1(M267) HAVE THE HIGHEST FREQUENCY AND In EUROPE IT IS THE LOWEST. ALSO HAPLOGROUPS F,I,J,K,AND R ARE MORE FREQUENT AMONG AFRO ASIATIC(SEMETIC) GROUPS INCLUDING THE ARABS, BEJA, COPTS, AND HAUSA, AND NIGER-CONGO SPEAKERS FROM THE FULANI ETHNIC GROUP. NOTICE THE J IS AMOUNGST THIS GROUP.Source from AJ OF PHYSICAL ANTHROPOLOGY 2008 Y-CHROMOSOME VARIATION AMONG SUDANESE ALSO IN THE REPORT IT TELLS US THE J12F2 HAS A HIGH FREQUENCY AMOUNG NUBIANS, COPTS, ARABS. I CAN UNDERSTAND THIS BECAUSE THESE BROTHER ARE BLACK(VARYING IN THE SHADES OF BLACK BROWN YELLOW AND LIGHT BRIGHT DAMN NEAR WHITE BUT MOSTLY BLACK AND BROWN AND YELLOW SHADES (I KNOW THESE BROTHER PERSONALY) . Soon you will find that all these genes have there origin with the black family. White people did not get here from nothing they came from the black people not from monkeys as this foolish evolutionary theory assumes. And if you came from the black you got to have some of what we got in you. NATURES DESCRIBES WHAT IT MEANS TO BE BLACK STRAITS
Negroid(Black) characteristics – broad and round nasal cavity; no dam or nasal sill; Quonset hut-shaped nasal bones; notable facial projection in the jaw and mouth area (non medical prognathism); a rectangular-shaped palate; a square or rectangular eye orbit shape; and large, megadontic teeth. Thick lips, flat, medium to broad nose, almond shaped medium to large, eyes, medium brown to almost black skin, medium to thick, kinky hair- shades of black to brown, broad, high cheek bones, and a prominent occipital protuberance. Larger lower lumbar curvature, more prominent fatty pads of the buttocks(particularly women-Hottentot women is very exaggerated) NOW NATURE WHERE DID YOU GET THIS DEFINITION FROM? to bad we don’t fit into a boxs like that, it would be simple to divide us by our skin complexion, hair texture, nose shapes, etc which is what Willie lynch taught the plantation owners to do to keep us divided. Use our differences againsgt us. However Nature that won’t work now a days even with genetics we will not let you divide us by our differences. I’ll tell you what go tell the blond haired white folks that they are a different people from the dark haired white folks. Tell them that the ones who are unable to get tans that they are different from the ones that can get tans and that they are not the same people. Tell the blue eyed ones that they are not the same as the brown eyed ones and they are both different from the green eyed ones. DON’T YOU THINK THEY ARE DIFFERENT PEOPLE?
May 2, 2009 at 7:02 am |
The people of Kemet were the BLACK NUBIANS whom were NOT the Arab Semitic White Ancient Egyptians-we NEVER agreed-the Black Nubians are not the White Ancient Egyptians-again-TWO SEPARATE ernicities your comments are stating the Black Nubians were the ancient Egyptians. The list of people I gave you are Arab Americans whose ancestry is from Lebanon(Lebanese) in the Arabian Peninsula-yes they are LIGHT skinned-you attempt to claim because Arabs have dark skin, they are Black-NOT TRUE. How many Black Americans can speak ANY of the Black African languages such as Swahili? More Arab Americans can speak Arabic than Black Americans can speak any of the Black languages. The Brown Ancient Egyptian is Arab Semitic White as is the lighter skinned Libian-The Nubian(the “Khemitian” as you call themNubians and people of Kemit are one and the same) is shown with black skin in the Book of the Gates from Seti I. Semites by definition, are not Black-no such thing as a Black Semite/Arab-akin to saying Black White.There are admixtures -the late Anwar Sadat, models Iman, and Lila Lebedde-White(Arab Semitic fathers)-Black mothers. The late Anwars Sadat had an Egyptian(Arab Semitic White father) and a Black(Nubian-people of Kemit-Sudanese-all different names for the same Black ethnicity). The Black Nubian is not a foreigner, but the Arabs conquered the land in 5,000 B.C. . Nubia existed as a separate country, NOT PART OF EGYPT.Egypt annexed part of Nubia for ite lower southwestern corner in 1521 B.C.. Black Nubians were Pharoahs from 800-700 B.C..Those peoples are Caucasoids, NOT Black-again, you called dark skinned whites Black or have Black heritage.Their skin is not Black due to Black genes. some lighter Blacks as I said before, are do to natural variation, but there is a limit.Did you know O.J. has White ancestry? James Watson, DNA researcher was very outspoken against Black intellectual capabilities, that is, until he took the DNA test-guess what-he is 73% White European, 16 % Black, and 9% Asian. Let me repeat-NORTH AFRICA is ARAB SEMITIC WHITE-Ethiopia and Somalia is 1/3 Arab Semitic White(northern portions), Eropeans are Indo European Aryan, not, Semitic White-Margaret Thatcher, incidentally, discovered through DNA testin, she has Arab Semitic White heritage.Sudan/Nubia is part of Arab Semitic White North Africa, and, as I said, is 50% Arab Semitic WhiteThe J group in thos peoples is from the admixture and are highest there because the Arab Semitic White are highest there.
Michael Jackson is a very good example of an artificial ethnic change-Before he had all the classically Black features, I described, midway he looked mixed like King Tut , see article, NOW he looks White-genetically(DNA) he can still be identified as Black-I do not believe he had any dental work done and this could still show his Black heritage. There is NOTHING wrong with either group of features, but you seem bent on identifying peoples a Black based on skin color-that is NOT how ethnicity is determined. Does Jamie Farr, ArabSemitic White(Lebanese) American, the late Dean Martin, Indo European Aryan White(Italian), look like Bill Cosby, Black(African) American, look to YOU, like they belong in the same ethnic group-even their skin tone is different, and, it is NOT due to Black heritage.TAKE AN ANTHROPOLOGY COURSE. Another example of what I am talking about-take a look at the Black Barbie doll and the White Barbie doll. Lets just say for the purpose of the discussion, they both have the brown skin-notice anything-they look identical-you would not be able to tell one was a Black doll because the toy makers chose to make the Black Barbie basically a dark Caucasian(same as the Arabs, Jews, and Southern Europeans). For the Black doll to be Black, it should also have Black features. With all the plastic surgery Michael Jackson had done, if he got his skinned darkened again, you probably would be hard pressed to call him Black without knowing he is because the plastic surgery altered his Black features. Do you think if his skin were darkened, he would look like he did BEFORE the surgeries-NO.
May 2, 2009 at 7:06 am |
Sorry-many misspellings.
May 5, 2009 at 1:54 am |
nature your white semetic arab theory is just a product of past rascist white historians, archeologist, anthropologist, who wanted to enterain the thought of a superior white race bringing civiliztion to the inferior darker(people of the world) Now instead of you, their seed refering to the kemetians as white you place the word semetic arab on it as if that ment white. Their methods of classifing some black people as causiod or white vs others as black, negroid, etc is a verbal tool used to divided. the people of the ancient nile valley civilization were a black people ranging in complexions from black, brown, yellow and a very little white(i mean light skin) . the tomb of huy mural presents us with a visual picture of the princes of wawat(kush) with various skin shades black and brown as compared to the mural of seti with the black skin kushite and the brown skin kemetian. In the tomb of tut he is portrayed with the same complexion as the brown skin nubian(kushite). If there was any white people in kemet at this time they were few in number. the craftsmen who were in charge of certain building works all over the nile valley are portrayed as a people to this day that would be classified as blacks in america. But because they were kemetians they are classified as whites? Please spare me of the non sense. The murals on the tomb of djehutihotep 12th dynasty, the tomb of rekhmire and countless other tombs demonstrate that the majority of the people in kemet at this early time were black people and they were kemetians born there. The murals also show that the people further up the nile called Kush or ta zeti were a black people as well. You say the arabs conquered the land when? 5000 b.c.? What was their point of origin then? and where is there record of such a great victory over the people of the nile valley? You then compared the brown ancient kemetian that you called ASW with a lighter skinned libian? The mural of seti demonstrates a white skinned asiatic and a brown skinned kemetian they are not the same. On this mural what you have is a black kemetian and a black nubian with 2 white guys. That is phenotipically true. Nubia existed as a seperate country you say? however what is called upper egypt was part of the nubian power in predynastic times, the first rulers of a united place called kemet were from the south, and were also black. during this time 53% of the populations of kemet was pure blackpeople. the remainder may have been of mixed parentage. The delta of lower kemet had a small poplulation of whites when menes united the states into one. I could understand a intermixing of these people with the original black people of the land. But They didn’t come with a civilization. if they did then again show me their origin. again show me there record. They were not the founders of the kemetian civilization so technically they are just immigrants they would not have been classified as kemetians nor were they, as the mural of seti also demonstrates. The black pharoahs(not just the ones from 800- 700) did take women of various shades for themselves and some of them could have given birth to children who became kemetians as well. The black nubians pharoahs during the 25th dynasty were not caucasoids as you stated. They were indeed black as the people of that area are still today. You say OJ has white ancestry but he is still black alot of black people in america have white ancestrys in them that was a part of the willie lynch plan to mix good white blood in the slaves to speckle them up and use there differences against them. But they also have black ancestry in them. according to the one drop of the U.S. classification one drop of black blood makes you black. well if that is the case then half drop of black blood makes you even more black. If you are 1/3 black your are black, if you are 2/3 black your are black. many of your so-callled classified white arabs may have some black in them. this was definitely the case in arabia and the surrounding areas. black people where not confined to the continent called africa. Saba, himyar,haudramat, minaeans were black arabian kingdoms in souhwest arabia and right across the red sea is the horn of africa were trade was carried on between the 2 lands. The major trade center of that time was a part of the kingdom of kush(nubia) called meroe. axum became arrival to meroe in time however. the people of Axum spoke what is called a semetic lanquage akin to the lanquages of the ancient south arabic lanquage. These people were black people of arabia. The blending of their lanquage with the lanquage of the northern arabians produced what is called arabic today. Those people you say were white semetic arabs were dwelling in tents in deserts living a nomadic life not dwelling in cities of stone and wealth. They learned from the civilizations in southern arabia and began to intermix with that population as well as time went on. Some not all. In mesapotamia The city state of kish was a outpost of the kingdom of kush in ethiopia. the summerian city erech dedicated to the God Anu in erech was another city in mesapotamia that was part of the ethiopian empire. The city of anu in kemet predates the founding of the kemetian state. the are some of the connections to the black empire known as the ethiopian empire prior to the founding of kemet. thebes, napata, meroe, kerma all these cities existed before the dynastic period and they were not founded by so-called white semetic arabs. Your black skin white semetic arab doesn’t hold any water with me. As i said before straight hair and black skin does’nt make you white as the tamils are a black skin people they are black. Guyanese are straight are some have curly hair and vary in skin from black to light. That doesn’t make them white either. Black is not a continent or country black is the source of all life and it is the key carbon atom for life in this universe. just like the stars in the universe were born from the blackness of space and just like white people were born from a original ancient black race of people. Before the 1st whiteman walked the earth it was a black people not apes or monkeys who had planted civilizations thru out the world. black people in america were robbed of the knowledge of themselves during the slavery process this is why they don’t speak the arabic lanquage and other lanquages. prior to slavery we spoke arabic and not english. arabic is a ancient lanquage one of the afroasiatic lanquages as well as hebrew. That mean black people also spoke these lanquages as they do today. There are more then just J1 in white skin arabs you imply that the people of the nile got the gene from white skin arabs however the white skin arabs could have got it from the black skin arabs. E-m78 chromosomes and there dispersal from easten africa into northern africa and the near east. e3b may have originated in sub saharan africa and expanded into the near east and northern africa at the end of the pleistocene(underhill et. al 2001) The haplogroup E with three branches E1 and E2 and E3. E1 and E2 have been observed almost exclusively on the african continent. The third one E3 defined by the mutation p2 has been observed in europe and in western asia, where it has generally been found at frequencies 25%(hammer et al. 2000, 2001. E3 subdivide in two monphyletic haplogroups. E3a and E3b both haplogroups are frequent in africa altought E3b has also been observed in europe. E3B has recently been proposed to orginate in sub saharan africa and expanded into the near east and northern africa at the end of the pleisontocene(underhill et al. 2001) . E3b lineages would have then been introduced from the near east into southern europe by immigrant farmers, during the neolithic expansion.(hammer et al. 1998:Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001). the iraqi y-chromosome haplogroups.The most represented haplotype of haplogroup E is haplotype 5(A2C0D0F1I1). This is followed by haplotype 11(A3C0D0F1I1) at a much lower frequency. Haplotypes 5 and 11 were observed both in africa.(lucotte et al., 2001: passarino et al., 1998; persichetti et al., 1992;santachiara….)
May 5, 2009 at 4:51 pm |
I never said the people of Kemit were White. I said they were the Black Nubians(Kemit is Nubia). The ancient and Modern Egyptians are Arab Semitic White by DNA and anthropological measurements. The Black Nubians(people of Kemit) lived among the Arab Semitic White Egyptians, and, still do.
On the mural of Seti I only one, is Black, The Nubian, shown by Black skin. The Egyptian(you incorrectly keep calling this Arab Semitic White a Kemetian(this is the BLACK Nubian) has dark brown skin-Arabs generally have olive(golden brown skin-gets darker in climates like Egypt). The Kemetian/Nubian is the one portrayed with black, not, brown, skin.
People of the Nile are Black.On this, you are correct .
Arabs invaded Africa from the Arabian Peninsula. There to, you are correct. The Arabs are foreign invaders and settled in Egypt around 5,000 B.C.(many experts think even further back around 10,500 B.C., but there is little evidence for this. Before this, the land where Egypt is, was made up of scattered Black tribes, NOT known as a country. Nubia(Kemit) existed, but not in the area called Egypt.
Again, The Egyptian(you incorrectly call Kemetian) and the Libyan are Arab Semitic White, then and now.The Black Nubian IS the Kemitian-Nubia is Kemit, NOT Egypt.
“The black nubians pharoahs during the 25th dynasty were not caucasoids as you stated.” The 25th Egyptian Dynasty(760 B.C. to 656 B.C.) is when the Black Nubian Pharoahs ruled-as you can see from the article, I called them Black Nubians, NOT caucasoids.
The language spoken in Axum is Ge’ez, a South Semitic language whose origins is open to debate, but one consideration is the Arabian Peninsula or Ethiopia.
The “homeland” of the South Semitic languages is widely debated, but is believed to have been Northern Ethiopia and Eritrea or the southwest corner of the Arabian Peninsula. The modern and historic presence of South Semitic Ethiopian languages (and Ethiopic script) in Africa is believed by some to be due to a (backwards) migration of South Arabian speakers from Yemen within the last few thousand years. Such a migration would be a “backwards” one in that Afro-Asiatic languages are assumed to have arisen in Africa originally and moved into the Middle East and Arabian Peninsula in the form of Proto-Semitic, since all major branches of the larger Afro-Asiatic are found in Africa. Others, such as A. Murtonen (1967), and Lionel Bender (1997), dispute this view, suggesting that Semitic may have originated in Ethiopia.
“In mesapotamia The city state of kish was a outpost of the kingdom of kush in ethiopia. the summerian city erech dedicated to the God Anu in erech was another city in mesapotamia that was part of the ethiopian empire. The city of anu in kemet predates the founding of the kemetian state. the are some of the connections to the black empire known as the ethiopian empire prior to the founding of kemet. thebes, napata, meroe, kerma all these cities existed before the dynastic period and they were not founded by so-called white semetic arabs. ” With the exception of Ethiopia, all the others are within the Arabian Peninsula, source of Arab Semitic Whites and other Semitic White, NOT, Black peoples.The ethnicitof the Kushites has been debatable as to whether they were Black, Semitic White, or a mix of the two, with the leaning towards Semitic White, not necessarily Arab-there were numerous Semitic peoples, most extinct.
tamils are a black skin people they are black. black people in america were robbed of the knowledge of themselves during the slavery process this is why they don’t speak the arabic lanquage and other lanquages. prior to slavery we spoke arabic and not english. arabic is a ancient lanquage one of the afroasiatic lanquages as well as hebrew. That mean black people also spoke. The Tamils are Indo European Aryan Whites.
There are more then just J1 in white skin arabs you imply that the people of the nile got the gene from white skin arabs however the white skin arabs could have got it from the black skin arabs. E-m78 chromosomes and there dispersal from easten africa into northern africa and the near east. e3b may have originated in sub saharan africa and expanded into the near east and northern africa at the end of the pleistocene(underhill et. al 2001) The haplogroup E with three branches E1 and E2 and E3. E1 and E2 have been observed almost exclusively on the african continent. The third one E3 defined by the mutation p2 has been observed in europe and in western asia, where it has generally been found at frequencies 25%(hammer et al. 2000, 2001. E3 subdivide in two monphyletic haplogroups. E3a and E3b both haplogroups are frequent in africa altought E3b has also been observed in europe. E3B has recently been proposed to orginate in subsaharan africa and expanded into the near east and northern africa at the end of the pleisontocene(underhill et al. 2001) . E3b lineages would have then been introduced from the near east into southern europe by immigrant farmers, during the neolithic expansion.(hammer et al. 1998:Semino et al. 2000; Underhill et al. 2001). the iraqi y-chromosome haplogroups.The most represented haplotype of haplogroup E is haplotype 5(A2C0D0F1I1). This is followed by haplotype 11(A3C0D0F1I1) at a much lower frequency. Haplotypes 5 and 11 were observed both in africa.(lucotte et al., 2001: passarino et al., 1998; persichetti et al., 1992;santachiara….). There are NO Black Arabs. Arabs are Semitic Whites. Arab/Black mixes are Berbers, Moors, and Hamites. Arabs and Blacks are two different ethnicities.
According to Coffman (2005), E1b1b is “often incorrectly described as “African,” leaving a misimpression regarding the origin and complex history of this haplogroup”. A lot of misinformation about this haplogroup also continues to pervade the public and media.
According to the International Society of Genetic Genealogy (ISOGG) and National Geographic’s Genographic Project, E1b1b1 may have arisen instead in the Near East or the Middle East and then expanded into the Mediterranean with the spread of agriculture. See the following link for an excellent over view:
http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1716706
Now, you have yet to answer my questions, why do you think Arabs and Blacks belong in the same ethnic group othe than your thinking on skin color-incidentally, Arabs generally have an olive(golden brown) skin tone and Blacks generally have a dusky shade of brown to almost blue Black(peoples of the Congo).There are some overlapping. Also, do you think Jamie Farr, Arab American, and Bill Cosby, Black American, fall in the same ethnic category?
May 6, 2009 at 12:08 am |
NATURE SAID I never said the people of Kemit were White. I said they were the Black Nubians(Kemit is Nubia). N Nature you have been misinformed by the misinformed. Egypt is the greek term for hekaptah which is what the kemetian city of menefer also called memphis was called. Meaning the house of ptah. KEMET IS THE NAME OF THE KINGDOM(THAT YOU KEEP CALLING EGYPT) WHICH CONSISTED OF UPPER AND LOWER KEMET. IT WAS NEVER CALLED EGYPT BY THE INDIGENOUS PEOPLE THERE. YOU ARE CORRECT THEY ARE BLACK. NUBIA WAS CALLED CUSH AND TAH ZETI and ALSO PART OF TA NETER(MEANING THE LAND OF THE GODS)BY THE PEOPLE OF KEMET. check this link http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/kmt.htm. T THEN NATURE SAYS The ancient and Modern Egyptians are Arab Semitic White by DNA and anthropological measurements. The Black Nubians(people of Kemit) lived among the Arab Semitic White Egyptians, and, still do. AS I SAID BEFORE IN THE PREDYNASTIC AND THE EARLY DYNASTIC TIME KEMET WAS 53% PURE BLACK 24$ OF THE MALES AND 19.5 PERCENT OF THE FEMALES WERE PURE NEGRO…source they came before columbus author Ivan Van Sertima. They were the founders of the Kemetian(as you erroneously called it egyptian) civilization. So if anything these mysterious white semetic arabs dwelt amoungst the original black kemetians. Not the reverse. It is a historical fact the persians, greeks, hyksos, romans and your white semetic arabs from arabia migrated and invaded kemet. It is another fact that these people were allowed to mix amougst the originalnal black inhabitants. While many of the original black inhabitants migrated to the southern reaches of the nile. Thus eventually producing the modern population in the ARAB REPUBLIC OF EGYTP. You speak of DNA proof to validate your semetic white arab egyptian theory. What DNA are you refering to? Present day DNA test have shown that the current population posses a predominance of haplotype 5 51.9%,LOWER EGYPT,24.2% UPPER EGYPT,17.4% LOWER NUBIA, haplotype 4 1.2% LOWER EGYPT,27.3% UPPER EGYPT,39.1% LOWER NUBIA haplotype 11.7% LOWER EGYPT, 28.8%, UPPER EGYPT,30.4% LOWER NUBIA. These are the most common p49a,f Ta1I Y chromosome in egyptian regions. Followed by a lower to almost non existed percentage of haplotype 6 8.6% LE,4.6% UE, 2.2% LN, haplotype 8 10.5% LE, 3.0% UE, 2.2% LN, haplotype 8 10.5% LE, 3.0% UE, 2.2% LN, haplotype 12 3.7% LE, 0.0% UE, 0.0% LN, haplotype 15 6.8%LE, 6.1% UE, 0.0% LN.(Lucotte and Mercier 2003a) Now haplotype 5 is part of the haplogroup E and this variant is found in very high frequencies in supra-saharan countries and mauretania (collective average 55.0%) and in Ethiopia(average 45.8%)(genetics, egypt, and history: Interpreting geographical patterns of Y chromosome variation S.O.Y. Keita National Human Genome Center, Howard University Department of Anthropology, Smithsonian institution. A.J. Boyce IBA St. John’s College Oxford University)History of africa 32 (2005). This variant of haplotype 5 has been called “African” (lucotte et al. 1993:839, Lucotte et al. 1996:469) and “berberian” (lucotte et al, 2001:887). Its Frequency is considerably less in the Near East, and decreases from west (Lebanon, 16.7%) to east (Iraq, 7.2%) The black jews of ethiopia, traditionally cushitic, not Semitic speakers have a high frequency of 5 and 11. Haplotype 11 and 4 is called “sourthern”. with 4 being labeled “sub-Saharan”. Haplotype 7 and 8 most prevalent in the Near East not North East Africa, and 12 and 15 are in Europe. YOU COMBINED THE MOST COMMON 3 TOGETHER 5, 4, 11, WHAT YOU GET IS STILL A PREDOMINATELY BLACK AND BROWN POPULATION EXISTING IN PRESENT DAY EGYPT. AND YES THEY ARE ALL APART OF THE BLACK FAMILY. NOT A PREDOMINATELY WHITE ARAB SEMETIC GROUP OVER A LITTLE GROUP OF BLACK AND BROWN PEOPLE. YOU CAN FORGET IT! HAPLOTYPE 4,5, AND 11 COLLECTIVELY FAR OUT NUMBER THE OTHERS, PERIOD. TAKE A LOOK AT PICTURES OF THE PRESENT DAY EGYPTIANS AND YOU WILL SEE THEY ARE STILL PREDOMINALY BLACK AND BROWN IN SKIN COMPLEXIONS WITH THE LIGHT SKIN (EVEN WITHOUT A TAN) INCLUDED AS WELL. Just like what you can see on the seti mural black and brown man = black family. Have you check the murals of the tombs of djehutihotep, huy, rekhire yet? Heres another one. The murals in the tomb of khnumhotep 2 here you will find your so-called semetic white arab bring tribute to a black and brown Kemetian people and not the other way around. and Notice like i said the people who are involved in craftsmans work, if they were in the hoods of the USA they would be still black. I told you that one drop of black blood is still in effect. But these brothers on the mural ain’t just all light skin they are brown not golden brown
as you try to say the so-called arabs are. Stop it. Arabs is not a race of people they are a people with a specific culture and range from dark skin to light skins. Check the Mitocondrial DNA as well(I’ll be back with that for you), Your so-called white arabs have been intermixing with black people with black, brown and yellow skin complexions since they been on the planet. Where did they learn how to speak the arabic lanquage from? where did they learn the arts and sciences of writing from? NATURE SAYS;Arabs invaded Africa from the Arabian Peninsula. There to, you are correct. The Arabs are foreign invaders and settled in Egypt around 5,000 B.C.(many experts think even further back around 10,500 B.C., but there is little evidence for this. Before this, the land where Egypt is, was made up of scattered Black tribes, NOT known as a country. Nubia(Kemit) existed, but not in the area called Egypt. AS I SAID WHERE IS YOUR PROOF OF THIS ARAB INVASION? WHERE IS THE CIVILIZATION THEY CAME FROM? YOU CAN CHECK THE SUMMERIAN RECORDS AND FIND INTERNATIONAL TRADE GOING ON IN THE LANDS OF INDIA, ARABIA, ETHIOPIA INCLUDING UP TO THE LAND OF UPPER KEMET DURING THE TIME THAT YOU SAY 5000 B.C. ACCORDING TO ANCIENT ETHIOPIAN TRADITION EGYPT WAS A COLONIE BROUGHT UP OUT OF ETHIOPIA BY OSIRIS HIMSELF. AND THIS WAS BEFORE THE DYNASTIC PERIOD OF KEMET BEGUN. NATURE SAYS The language spoken in Axum is Ge’ez, a South Semitic language whose origins is open to debate, but one consideration is the Arabian Peninsula or Ethiopia. GEEZ USES THE SOUTH ARABIAN SCRIPT OTHERWISE KNOW AS HIMYARITIC THIS IS THE LANQUAGE I WAS TALKING ABOUT THAT WAS SPOKEN BY THE BLACK ARABIANS(YES THERE ARE BLACK ARABIANS) FROM THE KINGDOM OF SABA, QATABAN,ETC MATTER OF FACT THIS SCRIPT WAS USED BY MOST SOUTH ARABIAN KINGDOMS. This why i named them to show you that blackpeople weren’t confined to the continent of africa. Do you think they were? I SAID; thebes, napata, meroe, kerma all these cities existed before the dynastic period and they were not founded by so-called white semetic arabs. ” THEN NATURE RESPOND SAYING With the exception of Ethiopia, all the others are within the arabian peninsula.source of arab semetic whites and other semetic whites. What others? these cities were apart of the ancient ethiopian empire located in the nile river valley. Since you have no evidence then we can say you are just speculating then. Theorizing, correct? If not produce your historical facts. AGAIN NATURE REPEATS There are NO Black Arabs. Arabs are Semitic Whites. Arab/Black mixes are Berbers, Moors, and Hamites. Arabs and Blacks are two different ethnicities. AS I SAID NATURE BLACK IS NOT A COUNTRY. Arabia is a country, india is a country, iran, iraq, china, palestine, france, germany, egypt, nubia, senegal, nigeria, liberia, morroco, tunisia libya, pakistan, japan, canda, england, russia, america etc all of these are countries. If you are born in one of these countries then you would be considered a citizen of that country. However we can find black people in various shades from black, brown, yellow to white people in these countries. People are not countries. People are called hispanic because they speak a spanish lanquage. Same with arabs the word doesn’t describe what color a person is nature. And since you like to use the word semetic so much. Exactly where did that word come from. The ancient people of the near east didn’t call themselves that. I have heard of blacks mixing with whites, But arab/mix with black?. Thats a stereotypical blunder on you part because there are those who fit your catagory of arab who are not and they will tell you that themselves. NATURE YOU ASK ME;Now, you have yet to answer my questions, why do you think Arabs and Blacks belong in the same ethnic group othe than your thinking on skin color. Nature i know black people (skin complexion brown) who speak the arabic lanquage and are consider arabs, black people are born in arab countries to.(that would make them arab). And i know white people who don’t speak arabic, being white doesn’t make them arab. Like i speak the english lanquage but it doesn’t make me english now does it? The word ethnicity doesn’t imply color either. It implies a people who share the same cultural background. One more thing. The descriptions of the negroids or blacks that you gave is long out dated method of describing black people. That is what is called typological models of classification from the 19th and the early 20th centuries, anthropologist and biologist naively divided all people into geographical groups on the basis of what they saw as the regular occurrence of selected traits. Its roots go back to a swedish naturalist, carolus linnaeus who proposed 4 biologial varieties of races of humans corresponding to geographic regions. Check it out for yourself in the history of anthropology. I don’t know who jamie farr Arab american is . Him and bill cosby. I’ll gel back with you on that one.
May 6, 2009 at 3:28 am |
El, Analyzed Y-chromosome haplotypes in the Nile River Valley in Egypt in 274 unrelated males, using the p49a,f TaqI polymorphism. These individuals were born in three regions along the river: in Alexandria (the Delta and Lower Egypt), in Upper Egypt, and in Lower Nubia. Fifteen different p49a,f TaqI haplotypes are present in Egypt, the three most common being haplotype V (39.4%), haplotype XI (18.9%), and haplotype IV (13.9%).
Haplotype V is a characteristic Arab haplotype, with a northern geographic distribution in Egypt in the Nile River Valley. Haplotype IV, characteristic of sub-Saharan populations, shows a southern geographic distribution in Egypt. Am J Phys Anthropol 121:000-000, 2003. © 2003 Wiley-Liss, Inc.
As for mtDNA (Krings et al., [1999]), the present study on the Y-chromosome haplotype shows that there are northern and southern Y-haplotypes in Egypt. The main Y-haplotype V is a northern haplotype, with a significantly different frequency in the north compared to the south of the country: frequencies of haplotype V are 51.9% in the Delta (location A), 24.2% in Upper Egypt (location B), and 17.4% in Lower Nubia (location C). On the other hand, haplotype IV is a typical southern haplotype, being almost absent in A (1.2%), and preponderant in B (27.3%) and C (39.1%). Haplotype XI also shows a preponderance in the south (in C, 30.4%; B, 28.8%) compared to the north (11.7% in A) of the country. In mtDNA, sequences of the first hypervariable HpaI site at position 3592 allowed Krings et al. ([1999]) to designate each mtDNA as being of northern or southern affiliation, and proportions of northern and southern mtDNA differed significantly between Egypt, Nubia, and the Southern Sudan.
It is interesting to relate this peculiar north/south differentiation, a pattern of genetic variation deriving from the two uniparentally inherited genetic systems (mtDNA and Y chromosome), to specific historic events. Since the beginning of Egyptian history (3200-3100 B.C.), the legendary king Menes united Upper and Lower Egypt. Migration from north to south may coincide with the Pharaonic colonization of Nubia, which occurred initially during the Middle Kingdom (12th Dynasty, 1991-1785 B.C.), and more permanently during the New Kingdom, from the reign of Thotmosis III (1490-1437 B.C.). The main migration from south to north may coincide with the 25th Dynasty (730-655 B.C.), when kings from Napata (in Nubia) conquered Egypt.
Concerning less frequent Y-haplotypes in Egypt, haplotype VIII is characteristic of Semitic populations, originating in the Near East (Lucotte et al., [1993]). For example (Lucotte et al., [1996]), the frequency of haplotype VIII is 26.2% among North African Jews (where it represents the majority haplotype) and 77.5% among Jews from the island of Djerba (Tunisia), reaching 85.1% among Oriental (from Iraq, Iran, and Syria) Jews. Similarly, haplotype VII had a general geographical distribution fairly identical to that of haplotype VIII (which it often accompanies as a secondary haplotype); haplotype VII distinguishes itself by increased preponderance north of the Mediterranean and in Eastern Europe (Lucotte et al., [1996]). Haplotype XV is the most widespread Y-haplotype in Western Europe (Lucotte and Hazout, [1996]), where its frequency decreases from west to east (Semino et al., [1996]; Lucotte and Loirat, [1999]). Haplotypes VIII, VII, and XV are less common haplotypes in Egypt (7.3%, 6.6%, and 5.5%, respectively), and tend to be located in the north of the country, near the Mediterranean coast. Possibly haplotypes VIII, VII, and XV represent, respectively, Near East, Greek, and Roman influences.
Read closely, Haplotype V is Arab in North Africa. Even your OWN statistics show Arabs are the greastest concentration in Lower(Northern) Egypt and lower in Upper (Southern Egypt, getting less further south as you LEAVE Egypt and move into Nubia-Kemit. Nothing I have shown you can convince you Arabs are Semitic White, a different ethnicity than Blacks-visit Sudan and see if the Black Sudanese agree with you that Arabs are Black(there is an ethnic cleansing war mainly in Darfur, going over this on both sides). Because it is sometimes called African, DOES NOT MEAN IT IS BLACK, an erroneous assumption you are operating on.
You still have not explaned why you believe Arab Semitic Whites are Black(NOT true). Once you have seen Jamie Farr or any Middle Eastern Arabs, you will recognize that Blacks are a different ethnicity-yes, I know you will claim otherwise or that the are mixed.Berbers and Moors have mostly(85% Arab genetic markers represented bt haplotype 5 and YOUR OWN statistics, the remaining 15% is their Black heritage-again Sudan, part of Arab Semitic White Nubia is 50% Arab Semitic White. Ethiopia and Somalia are 1/3 Arab Semitic White.examples-models Iman(Somalia)and Lila Kebedde(Ethiopia), and the late Anwar Sadat and Arab on Soul Train had Arab Semitic White fathers and Black mothers.Other mixes:
David Williams is Half Black-1/4 Greek(Indo European Aryan White), and 1/4 Arab(Semitic White).
Chili of TLC is 1/4 Arab Semitic White, 1/4 Tamil(from India-very dark brown Indo European Aryan White), 1/4 Black, and 1/4 American Indian-very beautiful
Try and tell them the Arab side is really Black.
I, my self, am a proud Christain Arab Americain, by birth, of Lebanese ancestry-I do not have Black features(described in my previous answer)-my skin color is like Jamie Farr’s whom is of the sames heritage. Although President Obama has no proven Arab (heritage-rumors abound), he has the same general coloration of an Arab as do the Southern Europeans of which yo seem to indicate have individuals called BLACK. Another point of contention is your claim that there are Blacks that are Arabs(not true-the have Nationality in Arab countries, NOT ethnicity)-did you not read my example of the Janjaweed(Black Sudanese whome converted to Islam, learned Arabic, and accepted Arab culture). here is another example:
Mostafa Hefny is a BLACK Nubian living in Egypt and is classified as Black there. He immigrated to the US and was reclassified as White, because, the US correctly recognizes Egypt as White(Arab Semitic by ethnicity), like Germany(Indo European Aryan). The trouble is, Mr. Hefny is Egyptian by Nationality-his ethnicity is Black.Yes there are Black Egytians like there are Black Germans, but there are BO Black Arab Semitic Whites, like there are noe Black indo European Aryans-no, that does NOT mean there are no mixes(examples given previously).
May 6, 2009 at 3:31 am |
El-sorry here is the link on Mastafa Hefny-use your browser-you can find others:
http://www.cnn.com/US/9707/16/racial.suit/
May 9, 2009 at 1:38 am |
http://blogs.knoxnews.com/knx/brown/archives/BILL%20COSBY_2.JPG heres a picture of bill cosby nature. Bills Complexion looks like the brown skin brother on the mural of seti.(maybe he is a brown skin semitic white arab to)LOL. Jamie farr yeah i remember him, i wondered what happen to him. He looks like the asiatic (white skinned) in the mural. defiinitly him and bill don’t look the same, just like the brown skin kemetian doens’t look like the white skin semitic in the mural. Have you found the origin of those mysterious white semitic arabs with such a great civiliztion that they brought to kemet yet? have you found the origin of the word semitic yet? Some say its from the son of noah shem from which comes semites. However since you say are a christian arab american you should already know that shem and his descendants were not the ones who established the kemetian civilization, like i said if anything they were migrants to the already full bloom kingdom, You still think that kemet isn’t the ancient name for the land that is now called egypt? Look it up for yourself. i gave you the link. What about the tombs of huy,The murals on the tomb of djehutihotep 12th dynasty, the tomb of rekhmire, khnumhotep. Did you analyze how the kemetians picture themselves and others. What about mentuhotep of the 11th dynasty coming from the south(upper kemet) that brother was jet black. With modern day clothes they look like brothers from the hood from the Eb1 haplogroup. Not White semetic arabs from the J1 haplogroup. NATURE SAID IN A PREVIOUS POST; I have three mixed ethnicity friends- two with Irish(White) fathers and Black mothers, and one with a Black father and an Irish(White). They all have very pale blue eyes, very light freckled skin, and straw colored light red, kinky hair. Their bone structure is of their Black heritage. IF THEY HAD DARK HAIR, EYES AND SKIN , theres would be NO question they were Black-imagine Bill Cosby with the above features and you would know what I mean. Okay nature apply the same observation to the kemetians in these tombs. and you will still come up black people. Back to these haplotypes and haplogrous, In the same report(brief communication:Y-chromosome haplotypes in egypt G. lucotte and G.mercier2003) under the discussion Its reads “Haplotypes V,XI,IV are the main chromosome-specific haplotypes in EGYPTIAN MALES DETECTED IN in the present study. HAPLOTYPE V IS CHARACTERISTIC OF ARAB AND BERBER POPULATIONS OF NORTH AFRICA. So this is talking about the arabs and berbers in north africa not in the Near east or arabia. From another report (S.O.Y. Keita Genetics, egypt, and history…2005).HE SAYS IT IS IMPORTANT TO ADDRESS THE APPELLATION OF “ARABIC” FOR HAPLOTYPE V DUE TO NAMES BEING INTERPRETED AS INDICATORS OF ORIGINS, AND THE INCONSISTENCIES FOUND IN THE LITERATURE. THIS VARIANT IS FOUND IN VERY HIGH FREQUENCY IN SUPRA-SHARAN COUNTRIES AND MAURENTANIA (COLLECTIVE AVERAGE 55.0%) AND IN ETHIOPIA (AVERAGE 45.85) TABLE 2A. IN SPECIFIC GROUPS ITS HIGHEST PREVALENCE IS IN SAMPLES FROM MOROCCAN AMAZIGH (BERBERS) (68. 9%) AND ETHIOPIAN FALASHA (60.5%). ITS FREQUENCY IS CONSIDERABLY LESS IN THE NEAR EAST, AND DECREASES FROM WEST(LEBANON, 16.7%) TO EAST (IRAQ, 7.2%) (TABLE 2A). THE LABEL “ARABIC” FOR V IS THEREFORE MISLEADING BECAUSE IT SUGGESTS A NEAR EASTERN ORIGIN. IN FACT THIS VARIANT HAS BEEN CALLED “AFRICAN” (LUCOTTE ET AL. 1993:839, LUCOTTE ET AL. 1996;) AND “BERBERIAN”(LUCOTTE ET AL. 2001:887). From (african archaeological review, Vol.22, no2, june 2005 S.O.Y. Keita. He says “so far research indicates that haplotype V in africa is associated with M35/215 (or 215/M35) subclade. as is XI, and IV with the M2/PN1/M180 lineage, both of the YAP/M145/m213 cluster. These lineages that in africa that affiliate with haplotypes V,XI, and 1V(called “sub-Saharan”) are joined by a transition mutation: “Most notably the PN2 transition..unites two high frequency subclades, defined by M2/PN1/M180 mutations in sub-Saharan africa, and M35/215 in north and east africa…”(Underhill et al., 2001, p. 50; see also cruciani et al.., 2002). It is of great interest that the PN2 clade or “Family” indicates that the males of numerous African populations with different morphologies on average (skin colors physiognomies, and hair forms) (sometimes incorrectly called”races”0 Share ancient ancestry, i.e. are microcladistically related to each other, befor they share ancestry with groups from other regions who may be mor anatomically similar in the aforementioned traits. E1b1b.M215 Ethiopia and Sudan harbor the highest levels (30-40%) fo the E1b1b(215 subclade. Based on the profile of its distribution and the degree of STR diversity in this subclade it is believed to ORIGINATE IN EAST AFRICA. THE TMRCA ESTIMATE IS 20-26000YRSAGO AND BY 17KYA this subclade had migrated to Northeast Africa. It may be that the Nile river Valley acted as a migratory corridor for this subclade and some of its important descendants…This also fits with its higher prevalence among Nilo-saharan language groups versus Afro-Asiatic language groups. (source gene base tutorials). Also E-78 belongs to clade E3b(e-m215). On the basis of robust phylogeographic considerations an EASTERN AFRICAN ORIGIN HAS BEEN PROPOSED FOR E-M215(UNDERHILL ET AL. 2001; CRUCIANI ET AL. 2004) with a coalescence time of 22.4 ky….A northeastern African origin for haplogroup E-m78 implies that E-M215 chromosomes were introduced in northeastern africa from eastern africa in the upper paleolithic, between 23/9ky ago (the upper bound forE-m215 TMRCA in eastern African) and 17.3 ky ago (the lower bound for E-M78 TMRCA here estimated Fig.1) In turn, the presence of E-M78 mutation in northeastern Africa. (Tracing Past Human Male Movements in Northern/Eastern Africa and Western Eurasia:New clues from Y-Chromosomal Haplogroups E-M78 and J-M12…2007). Notice that the E-m215 originated in east africa about 20 to 26,000ky ago. In Berber history says that the genetic evidence appeas to indicate that most northwest africans(whether they consider themselves berber or arab) are predominantly of berber origin, and that populations ancestral to berbers have been in the area since THE UPPER PALEOLITHIC ERA. the genetically predominant ancestors of the berbers appear to have come from EAST AFRICA, THE MIDDLE EAST, OR BOTH.. ANOTHER SUBLCLADE OF 35/215 IS M81 THE MAJORITY OF Y CHROMOSOMES IN N. WEST AFRICA AMOUNGST. SO THE ANCESTORS OF THE BERBERS HAVE BEEN IN THAT AREA SINCE THE 215 MIGRATED TO THESE AREA’S. ALSO They identify the “75% NW African Upper Paleolithic” component as “an Upper Paleolithic colonization that probably had its origin in EASTERN AFRICA. So the Ethiopians, somalis,Eritreans and North african berbers and Arabs, sudanese share a common ancestor originating from East Africa. Where as the j1 subclade of haplogroup j is abundant in arabian peninsula(10-75%), Africa(5-30%) and southwest asia (5-10%) It has a TMRCA estimated at 10kya and expansion from 10-5kya. So by this time E-m 213 had already spread out through northeast and northwest africa with their subclades. Also possibly had spread to the Near East before j1 arrival in the near east. In Egypt the haplotypes VII and VIII are associated with the J haplogroup which is presently predominant in the near East proper. So the make up of the present population of egypt is still predominantly african including africans from east and north east and north west population with some recent gene flow from europe and subsahara. And not a predominantly J1 population from which you feel comes your mysterious white semitic arab conquerors 5000 b.c. Tell me just what does the j1 genes in the j1 haploygroup produce phenotypically. I already told you the gene that produces white skin is a mutation Gene s1c24a5.
May 9, 2009 at 5:28 am |
Bill Cosby looks like a typical Black Nubian whom lived and intermingled with the Arab Semitic White Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Jamie Farr’s skin complexion is only slightly lighter, but as YOU agreed, the two do not belong in the same ethnic category:
Here is a photo of Anwar sadat, whom was half Black(mother Sudanese-Nubian-Kemitian) and half Arab Semitic White(father Arab Egyptian). He is intermediate between Bill Cosby and Jamie Farr.
GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East
From YOUR answer: “Where as the j1 subclade of haplogroup j is abundant in arabian peninsula(10-75%), Africa(5-30%) and southwest asia (5-10%) It has a TMRCA estimated at 10kya and expansion from 10-5kya.”
J1 is MOST abundant in the Arabian Peninsula(origins of the Arabs) and decreases as it spreads into Africa. Blacks are NOT the origins of the human race but, like the other ethnicities, are descendant from a common ancestor(NOT any ethnicity). Human ancestors are believed to have had a golden brown skin tone, and shades of black or brown hair and eyes.You are correct in that the gene that produces white skin is a mutation Gene s1c24a5.This occurred between 11,000 and 15, 000 years ago.
Haplogroup J1, defined by the 267 marker is most frequent in the Arabian Peninsula Yemen(76%), Saudi (64%), Qatar (58%), and Dagestan (56%). J1 is generally frequent amongst Arab Bedouins (62%. It is also very common among other Arabs such as those of the southern Levant, i.e. Palestinian Arabs (38.4%), in Algeria (35%), Iraq (33%), Tunisia (31%), Syria (30%), Lebanon (19%) , Egypt (20%), and the Sinai Peninsula. The frequency of Haplogroup J1 collapses suddenly at the borders of Arabic speaking countries with mainly non-Arabic speaking countries, such as Turkey (9%).
Levant is in the Middle East(Arabs):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Levant
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E3b_(Y-DNA)
Berbers are generally considered of mixed Black and White(MOSTLY Semitic and Indo European Artyan):
http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_qa3659/is_200606/ai_n17175647/pg_2/?tag=content;col1
http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1181964
Your basic contention is the Arabs are either Black(NOT true) and are, along with the Black Nubians, the Ancient and Modern Egyptians, or, if not Black, the Black Nubians are the Ancient and Modern Egyptians, and mixed with the Arabs-also NOT true, shown by your OWN facts. What I have stated is shown both, by the facts YOU presented and I presented. Basically, The Arabs invaded the land called Egypt, many ethnic groups mixed in, but mostly Black Nubians, some Nilotics, with the primary stock being Arab Semitic White. This is shown by your own facts as well as what I stated.It can be argued that out of Africa, the human ancestors(NOT Blacks, but a common ancestor) migrated through out the world. Those settling in the Middle East, of which most are Arabs, then backflowed(invaded Egypt) mixing with the Black Nubians as well as other ethnicities that ruled over the Arabs and the Black Nubians living there. This is in agreement with both the article and what you and I have discussed.Our only differences are, you do not know whether or not, to define Arabs as Blacks and to continue saying the Egyptians, both Ancient and Modern, were Black.
May 12, 2009 at 12:59 am |
NATURE SAYS AGAIN: Bill Cosby looks like a typical Black Nubian whom lived and intermingled with the Arab Semitic White Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Jamie Farr’s skin complexion is only slightly lighter, but as YOU agreed, the two do not belong in the same ethnic category:
OK NATURE LETS SEE I GET IT EVERYONE THAT IS BLACK IS NUBIAN TO YOU. OH SORRY BILL COSBYS FROM USA. AND MIXED WITH WHITE SEMITIC ARAB YOU SAY? OH BUT NATURE, YOU SAID BILL WAS BLACK SOME POST AGO. THATS RIGHT HE SURE IS BLACK JUST LIKE THAT BLACK/BROWN SKIN EGYPTIAN/KEMETIAN ON THE MURAL LETS LOOK AT JAMIE FARR; WITHOUT HIS TAN http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/39427/tn-500_1.jpg NO JAMIE DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE EGYPTIAN IN THE MURAL, NOR IS HE CLOSE TO BILLS COMPLEXION. FAR FROM IT. HE CAN DEFINITELY PASS FOR THAT WHITE GUY IN BETWEEN THE NUBIAN AND EGYPTIAN. Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above. Now you say J1 is MOST abundant in the arabian peninsula (10-75%). OK. HAPLOGROUP E IS ABUNDANT IN ALL REGIONS IN AFRICA AND IN SOME POPULATIONS IT MAKES UP NEARLY 100% OF THE Y-DNA. (Source Genebase tutorials) and it is a highly diversified haplogroup with many subclades that have unique histories and distributions, including regions outside of Africa in nearby ASIA ad EUROPE. Haplogroup E AND ITS SUBCLADES ENCOMPASS EPISODES FROM EARLY STONE(PALEOLITHIC) AGE MIGRATIONS TO THE SPREAD OF BANTU FARMERS 2,000- 4000 YEARS AGO TO RECENT SLAVE-TRADING IN THE 19TH CENTURY THAT BROUGHT MEN WITH THIS HAPLOGROUP TO THE NEW WORLD. HAPLOGROUP E IS PRESENT IN AFRICAN AMERICANS(BLACKS LIKE BILL COSBY), According to the link you gave me its ORIGIN-DATE IS 52,000 BP AND PLACE OF ORIGIN IS IN EAST AFRICA WHICH WOULD PUT ITS TIME IN THE PALEOLITHIC PERIOD. HAPLOGROUP J COMES ABOUT 20,000 KYA LATER. WITH J1 ENTERING THE SCENE MUCH LATER THEN THAT 10-5 KYA. Now notice from the TRACING PAST HUMAN MALE… REPORT he says clade E3B(E-M215)….the CLADE OF HAPLOGROUP E….INTRODUCED CHROMOSOMES IN NORTHEASTERN AFRICA FROM EASTERN AFRICA IN THE UPPER PALEOLITHIC PERIOD, BRINGING FORTH SUBCLADE E-M78. BETWEEN 23.9 KY AGO…..Haplogroup J was young on the scene then, some 7,000 yrs old still up in its place of origin. HG E was already about 30,000 yrs old then….AND 17.3 KY AGO. SO these people in HG E-78 were already in NORTHEAST AFRICA (KEMET/EGYPT) INCLUDED 23.9KY AGO. WASN’T NO J1 THEN. Now from LEVANT VERSES THE HORN…..REPORT SAYS..SINCE THE E3B-M35 LINEAGES APPEAR TO BE CONFINED MOSTLY TO THE SUB-SAHARAN POPULATIONS, IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT THE INITIAL MIGRATIONS TOWARD NORTH AFRICA FROM THE SOUTH PRIMARLIY INVOLVED DERIVATIVE E3B-M35 LINEATES. THESE INCLUDED E3B1-M78, A HAPLOGROUP ESPECIALLY COMMON IN ETHIOPIA(23%), AND , PERHAPS, E3B2-123(2%)….THE DATA SUGGEST THAT TWO LATER EXPANSIONS MAY HAVE FOLLOWED; ONE EASTWARD ALONG THE LEVANTINE CORRIDOR INTO THE NEAR EAST AND THE OTHER TOWARD NORTHWESTERN AFRICA. Remember now that Northwest africa is where the ancestors of the berbers were in the paleolithic period. So not only were these people migrating to the northeastern part of africa, they also went into the NEAR EAST AND NORTH WEST. BOTH ROUTES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISSEMINATION OF E3B1-M78. HOWEVER, THE E3B3-M123 CHROMOSOMES MAY HAVE SPREAD PREDOMINANTLY TOWARD THE EAST, WHEREAS E3B2 M81, WHICH IS PRESENT IN RELATIVELY HIGH LEVELS IN MOROCCO(33%) AND 69% IN MOROCCAN ARABS AND MOROCCAN BERBERS, RESPECTIVELY. But NATURE I THOUGHT ARABS WERE SUPPOSE TO BE J1. YOU WERE WRONG. THEY ALSO HAVE ARABS WITH HG E. Now let me add some more people to this HG-E NILO-SAHARAN SPEAKING GROUPS INCLUDING FUR, BORGU, AND MASALIT. HAPLOGROUP E 4 DIFFERENT HAPLOTYPES ACCOUNTS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CHROMOSOMES AND IS WIDE SPREAD IN THE SUDAN 34.4%. MASALIT-3-M78 REPRESENT 74.5% . E-M215 IS FOUND TO OCCUR MORE IN NILO-SAHARAN RATHER THAN AFROASIAN SPEAKING GROUPS. E-M78 WAS DISECTED AND CONSIST OF SEVERAL WELL ESTABLISHED SUBCLADES IT IS COMMON AMOUNG MOST SUDANESE POPS. IT HIGHEST FREQUENCY AMONG THOSE OF WESTERN (PARTICULARLY DARFUR) THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN. THE SUBCLADES OF M-78 ARE E-V12 AND E-V22 AND THEY ARE VERY COMMON IN N.AFRICA. E-V12 IS THE PREDOMINANT SUBCLADE OF M78 AMOUNG SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS WHICH FORM A GENETIC CONTINUM WITH THE NUBIANS THAT SHARE COMPARABLE FREQUENCIES WITH THEIR KIN IN SOUTHERN EGYPT.(mind you these are the same Nubians THAT YOU SAID ARE BLACK WHOSE VARIOUS SHADES PRESENTED ON THE WALLS OF THE TOMB OF HUY CAN ALSO BE COMPARED WITH THE WHO? SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS. E-V12 ACCOUNTS FOR 19.3% AMOUNGST THE SUDANESE. This is a fine example of the genetic connection to correspond with the historical connection of the ancient nubians and the southern counter parts in kemet(egypt) also the northern extention. HOWEVER IT ALSO SHOWS YOU THAT THERE IS A PALEOLITHIC CONNECTION COMING FROM EAST AFRICA (WHERE BLACK PEOPLE LIVED) WITH THE BERBER WHO WERE ORIGINALY BLACK(LIKE THE TUAREGS) HOWEVER THEY BECAME MORE MIXED WITH THE WHITE POPULATION LATER ON. CHECK THE HISTORICAL RECORDS ON THIS. OTHERS WITH E3B1 77.^% SOMALIS OROMOS ETHIOPIA, 35.9% , ETHIOPIAN AMHARAS 22.9%, EGYPTIANS 20%, SUDANESE 17.5% KENYANS(15-1%) E3B1 CLUSTER y BANTUS FROM KENYA, N. EGYPT MORROCO AND NIGER. I can go on, but im going to break and let you assimilate this. J1 IS FOUND IN AFRICA (5-30%) BUT LIMITED TO THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST CORNER. WITH ALL OF THIS IT IS CLEAR TO SEE THAT THE PREDOMINATE HAPLOGROUP IN AFRICA IS E AND ITS SUBCLADES INCLUDED. AND CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NATURE EGYPT(KEMET) IS APART OF AFRICA. IF THERE WAS ANY WHITE SEMITIC ARABS IN ANCIENT KEMET(EGYPT) THEY WERE IN THE MINOR NOT THE MAJOR. AND AS I SAID THEY CAME AS IMMIGRANTS NOT FOUNDERS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION. AND IT WAS THE BLACK KEMETIANS WHO FOUNDED THAT CIVILIZATION. WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT THERE TODAY! NOT YOUR MYSTERIOUS WHITE SEMITIC ARABS. AS FOR ARABS AND ARABIA ….; To Be continued
May 12, 2009 at 1:05 am |
HEAH NATURE TAKE A LOOK AT SOME PRESENT DAY UPPER EGYPTIANS http://www.youregypt.com/issue7/images/topic.jpg
May 12, 2009 at 3:47 am |
They look like TYPICAL ARAB SEMITIC WHITES(including skin tone)-compare their facial features to Jamie Farr than to Bill Cosby-they look more like Jamie Farr-how?-the large pronounced nose thin lips, oval head structure, high fore head, and wavy hair.
Do any have thick lips, broad, flat nose, low forehead, and kinky hair like Bill Cosby?
See the following link for what the Black Sudanese-people of Kemit-Nubians look like:
Now can you see the difference-pay particular attention to facial features.
Everything said and done, maybe now you can see Blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities. After all his surgeries, if Michael Jackson had dark skin, he could pass as an Arab, not even Black(had Black features removed with plastic surgery-his nose could be more prominent to look more Arab like YOUR first link ).
Compare the Black Sudanese girl with the Arab Sudanese girl in the following link-NOW can you see the ethnic differences?
Blacks and Arab Semitic White are two DIFFERENT ethnicities-I do not know any other way I can make it in more clear to you.
May 12, 2009 at 3:21 pm |
NATURE SAYS AGAIN: Bill Cosby looks like a typical Black Nubian whom lived and intermingled with the Arab Semitic White Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Jamie Farr’s skin complexion is only slightly lighter, but as YOU agreed, the two do not belong in the same ethnic category:
OK NATURE LETS SEE I GET IT EVERYONE THAT IS BLACK IS NUBIAN TO YOU. OH SORRY BILL COSBYS FROM USA. AND MIXED WITH WHITE SEMITIC ARAB YOU SAY? OH BUT NATURE, YOU SAID BILL WAS BLACK SOME POST AGO. THATS RIGHT HE SURE IS BLACK JUST LIKE THAT BLACK/BROWN SKIN EGYPTIAN/KEMETIAN ON THE MURAL LETS LOOK AT JAMIE FARR; WITHOUT HIS TAN http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/39427/tn-500_1.jpg NO JAMIE DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE EGYPTIAN IN THE MURAL, NOR IS HE CLOSE TO BILLS COMPLEXION. FAR FROM IT. HE CAN DEFINITELY PASS FOR THAT WHITE GUY IN BETWEEN THE NUBIAN AND EGYPTIAN. Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above. Now you say J1 is MOST abundant in the arabian peninsula (10-75%). OK. HAPLOGROUP E IS ABUNDANT IN ALL REGIONS IN AFRICA AND IN SOME POPULATIONS IT MAKES UP NEARLY 100% OF THE Y-DNA. (Source Genebase tutorials) and it is a highly diversified haplogroup with many subclades that have unique histories and distributions, including regions outside of Africa in nearby ASIA ad EUROPE. Haplogroup E AND ITS SUBCLADES ENCOMPASS EPISODES FROM EARLY STONE(PALEOLITHIC) AGE MIGRATIONS TO THE SPREAD OF BANTU FARMERS 2,000- 4000 YEARS AGO TO RECENT SLAVE-TRADING IN THE 19TH CENTURY THAT BROUGHT MEN WITH THIS HAPLOGROUP TO THE NEW WORLD. HAPLOGROUP E IS PRESENT IN AFRICAN AMERICANS(BLACKS LIKE BILL COSBY), According to the link you gave me its ORIGIN-DATE IS 52,000 BP AND PLACE OF ORIGIN IS IN EAST AFRICA WHICH WOULD PUT ITS TIME IN THE PALEOLITHIC PERIOD. HAPLOGROUP J COMES ABOUT 20,000 KYA LATER. WITH J1 ENTERING THE SCENE MUCH LATER THEN THAT 10-5 KYA. Now notice from the TRACING PAST HUMAN MALE… REPORT he says clade E3B(E-M215)….the CLADE OF HAPLOGROUP E….INTRODUCED CHROMOSOMES IN NORTHEASTERN AFRICA FROM EASTERN AFRICA IN THE UPPER PALEOLITHIC PERIOD, BRINGING FORTH SUBCLADE E-M78. BETWEEN 23.9 KY AGO…..Haplogroup J was young on the scene then, some 7,000 yrs old still up in its place of origin. HG E was already about 30,000 yrs old then….AND 17.3 KY AGO. SO these people in HG E-78 were already in NORTHEAST AFRICA (KEMET/EGYPT) INCLUDED 23.9KY AGO. WASN’T NO J1 THEN. Now from LEVANT VERSES THE HORN…..REPORT SAYS..SINCE THE E3B-M35 LINEAGES APPEAR TO BE CONFINED MOSTLY TO THE SUB-SAHARAN POPULATIONS, IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT THE INITIAL MIGRATIONS TOWARD NORTH AFRICA FROM THE SOUTH PRIMARLIY INVOLVED DERIVATIVE E3B-M35 LINEATES. THESE INCLUDED E3B1-M78, A HAPLOGROUP ESPECIALLY COMMON IN ETHIOPIA(23%), AND , PERHAPS, E3B2-123(2%)….THE DATA SUGGEST THAT TWO LATER EXPANSIONS MAY HAVE FOLLOWED; ONE EASTWARD ALONG THE LEVANTINE CORRIDOR INTO THE NEAR EAST AND THE OTHER TOWARD NORTHWESTERN AFRICA. Remember now that Northwest africa is where the ancestors of the berbers were in the paleolithic period. So not only were these people migrating to the northeastern part of africa, they also went into the NEAR EAST AND NORTH WEST. BOTH ROUTES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISSEMINATION OF E3B1-M78. HOWEVER, THE E3B3-M123 CHROMOSOMES MAY HAVE SPREAD PREDOMINANTLY TOWARD THE EAST, WHEREAS E3B2 M81, WHICH IS PRESENT IN RELATIVELY HIGH LEVELS IN MOROCCO(33%) AND 69% IN MOROCCAN ARABS AND MOROCCAN BERBERS, RESPECTIVELY. But NATURE I THOUGHT ARABS WERE SUPPOSE TO BE J1. YOU WERE WRONG. THEY ALSO HAVE ARABS WITH HG E. Now let me add some more people to this HG-E NILO-SAHARAN SPEAKING GROUPS INCLUDING FUR, BORGU, AND MASALIT. HAPLOGROUP E 4 DIFFERENT HAPLOTYPES ACCOUNTS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CHROMOSOMES AND IS WIDE SPREAD IN THE SUDAN 34.4%. MASALIT-3-M78 REPRESENT 74.5% . E-M215 IS FOUND TO OCCUR MORE IN NILO-SAHARAN RATHER THAN AFROASIAN SPEAKING GROUPS. E-M78 WAS DISECTED AND CONSIST OF SEVERAL WELL ESTABLISHED SUBCLADES IT IS COMMON AMOUNG MOST SUDANESE POPS. IT HIGHEST FREQUENCY AMONG THOSE OF WESTERN (PARTICULARLY DARFUR) THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN. THE SUBCLADES OF M-78 ARE E-V12 AND E-V22 AND THEY ARE VERY COMMON IN N.AFRICA. E-V12 IS THE PREDOMINANT SUBCLADE OF M78 AMOUNG SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS WHICH FORM A GENETIC CONTINUM WITH THE NUBIANS THAT SHARE COMPARABLE FREQUENCIES WITH THEIR KIN IN SOUTHERN EGYPT.(mind you these are the same Nubians THAT YOU SAID ARE BLACK WHOSE VARIOUS SHADES PRESENTED ON THE WALLS OF THE TOMB OF HUY CAN ALSO BE COMPARED WITH THE WHO? SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS. E-V12 ACCOUNTS FOR 19.3% AMOUNGST THE SUDANESE. This is a fine example of the genetic connection to correspond with the historical connection of the ancient nubians and the southern counter parts in kemet(egypt) also the northern extention. HOWEVER IT ALSO SHOWS YOU THAT THERE IS A PALEOLITHIC CONNECTION COMING FROM EAST AFRICA (WHERE BLACK PEOPLE LIVED) WITH THE BERBER WHO WERE ORIGINALY BLACK(LIKE THE TUAREGS) HOWEVER THEY BECAME MORE MIXED WITH THE WHITE POPULATION LATER ON. CHECK THE HISTORICAL RECORDS ON THIS. OTHERS WITH E3B1 77.^% SOMALIS OROMOS ETHIOPIA, 35.9% , ETHIOPIAN AMHARAS 22.9%, EGYPTIANS 20%, SUDANESE 17.5% KENYANS(15-1%) E3B1 CLUSTER y BANTUS FROM KENYA, N. EGYPT MORROCO AND NIGER. I can go on, but im going to break and let you assimilate this. J1 IS FOUND IN AFRICA (5-30%) BUT LIMITED TO THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST CORNER. WITH ALL OF THIS IT IS CLEAR TO SEE THAT THE PREDOMINATE HAPLOGROUP IN AFRICA IS E AND ITS SUBCLADES INCLUDED. AND CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NATURE EGYPT(KEMET) IS APART OF AFRICA. IF THERE WAS ANY WHITE SEMITIC ARABS IN ANCIENT KEMET(EGYPT) THEY WERE IN THE MINOR NOT THE MAJOR. AND AS I SAID THEY CAME AS IMMIGRANTS NOT FOUNDERS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION. AND IT WAS THE BLACK KEMETIANS WHO FOUNDED THAT CIVILIZATION. WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT THERE TODAY! NOT YOUR MYSTERIOUS WHITE SEMITIC ARABS. AS FOR ARABS AND ARABIA ….; To Be continued
May 12, 2009 at 3:24 pm |
NATURE SAYS AGAIN: Bill Cosby looks like a typical Black Nubian whom lived and intermingled with the Arab Semitic White Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Jamie Farr’s skin complexion is only slightly lighter, but as YOU agreed, the two do not belong in the same ethnic category:
LETS TAKE A LOOK AT BILL COSBY NATURE http://www.visitshoremagazine.com/blog_shore/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/billcosby.jpg
OK NATURE LETS SEE I GET IT EVERYONE THAT IS BLACK IS NUBIAN TO YOU. OH SORRY BILL COSBYS FROM USA. AND MIXED WITH WHITE SEMITIC ARAB YOU SAY? OH BUT NATURE, YOU SAID BILL WAS BLACK SOME POST AGO. THATS RIGHT HE SURE IS BLACK JUST LIKE THAT BLACK/BROWN SKIN EGYPTIAN/KEMETIAN ON THE MURAL LETS LOOK AT JAMIE FARR; WITHOUT HIS TAN http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/39427/tn-500_1.jpg NO JAMIE DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE EGYPTIAN IN THE MURAL, NOR IS HE CLOSE TO BILLS COMPLEXION. FAR FROM IT. HE CAN DEFINITELY PASS FOR THAT WHITE GUY IN BETWEEN THE NUBIAN AND EGYPTIAN. Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above. Now you say J1 is MOST abundant in the arabian peninsula (10-75%). OK. HAPLOGROUP E IS ABUNDANT IN ALL REGIONS IN AFRICA AND IN SOME POPULATIONS IT MAKES UP NEARLY 100% OF THE Y-DNA. (Source Genebase tutorials) and it is a highly diversified haplogroup with many subclades that have unique histories and distributions, including regions outside of Africa in nearby ASIA ad EUROPE. Haplogroup E AND ITS SUBCLADES ENCOMPASS EPISODES FROM EARLY STONE(PALEOLITHIC) AGE MIGRATIONS TO THE SPREAD OF BANTU FARMERS 2,000- 4000 YEARS AGO TO RECENT SLAVE-TRADING IN THE 19TH CENTURY THAT BROUGHT MEN WITH THIS HAPLOGROUP TO THE NEW WORLD. HAPLOGROUP E IS PRESENT IN AFRICAN AMERICANS(BLACKS LIKE BILL COSBY), According to the link you gave me its ORIGIN-DATE IS 52,000 BP AND PLACE OF ORIGIN IS IN EAST AFRICA WHICH WOULD PUT ITS TIME IN THE PALEOLITHIC PERIOD. HAPLOGROUP J COMES ABOUT 20,000 KYA LATER. WITH J1 ENTERING THE SCENE MUCH LATER THEN THAT 10-5 KYA. Now notice from the TRACING PAST HUMAN MALE… REPORT he says clade E3B(E-M215)….the CLADE OF HAPLOGROUP E….INTRODUCED CHROMOSOMES IN NORTHEASTERN AFRICA FROM EASTERN AFRICA IN THE UPPER PALEOLITHIC PERIOD, BRINGING FORTH SUBCLADE E-M78. BETWEEN 23.9 KY AGO…..Haplogroup J was young on the scene then, some 7,000 yrs old still up in its place of origin. HG E was already about 30,000 yrs old then….AND 17.3 KY AGO. SO these people in HG E-78 were already in NORTHEAST AFRICA (KEMET/EGYPT) INCLUDED 23.9KY AGO. WASN’T NO J1 THEN. Now from LEVANT VERSES THE HORN…..REPORT SAYS..SINCE THE E3B-M35 LINEAGES APPEAR TO BE CONFINED MOSTLY TO THE SUB-SAHARAN POPULATIONS, IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT THE INITIAL MIGRATIONS TOWARD NORTH AFRICA FROM THE SOUTH PRIMARLIY INVOLVED DERIVATIVE E3B-M35 LINEATES. THESE INCLUDED E3B1-M78, A HAPLOGROUP ESPECIALLY COMMON IN ETHIOPIA(23%), AND , PERHAPS, E3B2-123(2%)….THE DATA SUGGEST THAT TWO LATER EXPANSIONS MAY HAVE FOLLOWED; ONE EASTWARD ALONG THE LEVANTINE CORRIDOR INTO THE NEAR EAST AND THE OTHER TOWARD NORTHWESTERN AFRICA. Remember now that Northwest africa is where the ancestors of the berbers were in the paleolithic period. So not only were these people migrating to the northeastern part of africa, they also went into the NEAR EAST AND NORTH WEST. BOTH ROUTES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISSEMINATION OF E3B1-M78. HOWEVER, THE E3B3-M123 CHROMOSOMES MAY HAVE SPREAD PREDOMINANTLY TOWARD THE EAST, WHEREAS E3B2 M81, WHICH IS PRESENT IN RELATIVELY HIGH LEVELS IN MOROCCO(33%) AND 69% IN MOROCCAN ARABS AND MOROCCAN BERBERS, RESPECTIVELY. But NATURE I THOUGHT ARABS WERE SUPPOSE TO BE J1. YOU WERE WRONG. THEY ALSO HAVE ARABS WITH HG E. Now let me add some more people to this HG-E NILO-SAHARAN SPEAKING GROUPS INCLUDING FUR, BORGU, AND MASALIT. HAPLOGROUP E 4 DIFFERENT HAPLOTYPES ACCOUNTS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CHROMOSOMES AND IS WIDE SPREAD IN THE SUDAN 34.4%. MASALIT-3-M78 REPRESENT 74.5% . E-M215 IS FOUND TO OCCUR MORE IN NILO-SAHARAN RATHER THAN AFROASIAN SPEAKING GROUPS. E-M78 WAS DISECTED AND CONSIST OF SEVERAL WELL ESTABLISHED SUBCLADES IT IS COMMON AMOUNG MOST SUDANESE POPS. IT HIGHEST FREQUENCY AMONG THOSE OF WESTERN (PARTICULARLY DARFUR) THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN. THE SUBCLADES OF M-78 ARE E-V12 AND E-V22 AND THEY ARE VERY COMMON IN N.AFRICA. E-V12 IS THE PREDOMINANT SUBCLADE OF M78 AMOUNG SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS WHICH FORM A GENETIC CONTINUM WITH THE NUBIANS THAT SHARE COMPARABLE FREQUENCIES WITH THEIR KIN IN SOUTHERN EGYPT.(mind you these are the same Nubians THAT YOU SAID ARE BLACK WHOSE VARIOUS SHADES PRESENTED ON THE WALLS OF THE TOMB OF HUY CAN ALSO BE COMPARED WITH THE WHO? SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS. E-V12 ACCOUNTS FOR 19.3% AMOUNGST THE SUDANESE. This is a fine example of the genetic connection to correspond with the historical connection of the ancient nubians and the southern counter parts in kemet(egypt) also the northern extention. HOWEVER IT ALSO SHOWS YOU THAT THERE IS A PALEOLITHIC CONNECTION COMING FROM EAST AFRICA (WHERE BLACK PEOPLE LIVED) WITH THE BERBER WHO WERE ORIGINALY BLACK(LIKE THE TUAREGS) HOWEVER THEY BECAME MORE MIXED WITH THE WHITE POPULATION LATER ON. CHECK THE HISTORICAL RECORDS ON THIS. OTHERS WITH E3B1 77.^% SOMALIS OROMOS ETHIOPIA, 35.9% , ETHIOPIAN AMHARAS 22.9%, EGYPTIANS 20%, SUDANESE 17.5% KENYANS(15-1%) E3B1 CLUSTER y BANTUS FROM KENYA, N. EGYPT MORROCO AND NIGER. I can go on, but im going to break and let you assimilate this. J1 IS FOUND IN AFRICA (5-30%) BUT LIMITED TO THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST CORNER. WITH ALL OF THIS IT IS CLEAR TO SEE THAT THE PREDOMINATE HAPLOGROUP IN AFRICA IS E AND ITS SUBCLADES INCLUDED. AND CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NATURE EGYPT(KEMET) IS APART OF AFRICA. IF THERE WAS ANY WHITE SEMITIC ARABS IN ANCIENT KEMET(EGYPT) THEY WERE IN THE MINOR NOT THE MAJOR. AND AS I SAID THEY CAME AS IMMIGRANTS NOT FOUNDERS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION. AND IT WAS THE BLACK KEMETIANS WHO FOUNDED THAT CIVILIZATION. WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT THERE TODAY! NOT YOUR MYSTERIOUS WHITE SEMITIC ARABS. AS FOR ARABS AND ARABIA ….; To Be continued
May 12, 2009 at 3:29 pm |
HEY NATURE WHERES MY COMMENT PRIOR TO THIS ONE? El Says:
May 12, 2009 at 1:05 am | Reply
HEAH NATURE TAKE A LOOK AT SOME PRESENT DAY UPPER EGYPTIANS http://www.youregypt.com/issue7/images/topic.jpg DON’T TELL ME YOU ARE CENSORING MY COMMENTS NOW. YOU ASKED FOR DNA FACTS I GAVE THEM TO YOU.
May 12, 2009 at 3:36 pm |
NATURE SAYS AGAIN: Bill Cosby looks like a typical Black Nubian whom lived and intermingled with the Arab Semitic White Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Jamie Farr’s skin complexion is only slightly lighter, but as YOU agreed, the two do not belong in the same ethnic category:
HERES A PICTURE OF BILL COSBY: http://www.visitshoremagazine.com/blog_shore/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/billcosby.jpg
OK NATURE LETS SEE I GET IT EVERYONE THAT IS BLACK IS NUBIAN TO YOU. OH SORRY BILL COSBYS FROM USA. AND MIXED WITH WHITE SEMITIC ARAB YOU SAY? OH BUT NATURE, YOU SAID BILL WAS BLACK SOME POST AGO. THATS RIGHT HE SURE IS BLACK JUST LIKE THAT BLACK/BROWN SKIN EGYPTIAN/KEMETIAN ON THE MURAL LETS LOOK AT JAMIE FARR; WITHOUT HIS TAN http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/39427/tn-500_1.jpg NO JAMIE DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE EGYPTIAN IN THE MURAL, NOR IS HE CLOSE TO BILLS COMPLEXION. FAR FROM IT. HE CAN DEFINITELY PASS FOR THAT WHITE GUY IN BETWEEN THE NUBIAN AND EGYPTIAN.
May 13, 2009 at 12:52 am |
Sorry El, upon reviewing the comments, I did catch this one.It is approved-I NEVER DECLINED it.Again, you turn my words around.
You misinterpreted what I said-Bill Cosby looks like a Black Nubian/Sudanese/Kemitian-I did NOT say he was mixewd Black/Arab. The Black Nubians did intermarry with Arab Semitic Whites.
NO JAMIE DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE EGYPTIAN IN THE MURAL, NOR IS HE CLOSE TO BILLS COMPLEXION. FAR FROM IT. HE CAN DEFINITELY PASS FOR THAT WHITE GUY IN BETWEEN THE NUBIAN AND EGYPTIAN.
Jamie Farr is only slightly lighter than the Egyptian and darker than the Asiatic(you call White guy). Arabs that live in sunny Egypt, become very dark as you your self showed in one of YOUR links-have you seen the Arabs in North Africa-most are darker than other Arabs(yes some is do to admixture, but they are Mulattos, not Arabs-most are due to sun exposure.
I apologize for not approving this sooner-never got a notification.
May 12, 2009 at 3:37 pm |
Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above.
May 12, 2009 at 3:51 pm |
OH I SEE NATURE YOU ARE CENSORING THE COMMENTS NOW. ON THAT NOTE, I GUESS I’LL JUST RAISE MY HANDS UP OVER MY HEAD IN A SIGN OF VICTORY. I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE UNDENIABLE, UNDISBUTABLE, INFALLIBALE TRUTH. NEXT TIME BECAREFUL OF WHAT YOU TRY TO FALSIFY OVER THE INTERNET, CAUSE WE THE SOLDIERS OF TRUTH ARE WATCHING. THIS IS EL OVER AND OUT. P.S. IM GOING TO PUT OUR DEBATE ON MY YAHOOGROUPS SITE.
May 12, 2009 at 5:55 pm |
CENSOR?I have NOT declined ANY. Please, correct yourself-see May 9, 2009-1:38 a.m.-IT IS THEREand below it is MY response to your erroneous interpetation.Prior to these last to responses from you. It is the last resonse I recieved from you.If you sent another, RESEND IT. Solder’s of Truth-sorry,all tou have given me are twisted facts which I have corrected-apologies accepted-HERE IS THE TRUTH in a NUTSHELL:
1) You insist Arabs are Black-they are NOT-your owns genetic proof as well as mine shows this.
2) You insist the Black Nubians are the Ancient and Modern Egyptians-they are NOT–though the Black Nubians/Kemetians lived and mixed with the Arab Semitic Whites and Built some pyramids-approximately 800-700 B.C..
3) You did not know the Near East is the Middle East.
4) The Egyptians you have shown, did not present any Black features-I have presented you with Black Sudanese-Nubians-people of Kemet that do.
Bottomline: Arabs are the base stock of Ancient and Modern Egyptians and there was 35% of the population of different admixtures-30% of Blacks(mostly Nubians, some Nilotics) and Black Arab mixes. The quoted facts of yours agree with mine, basically, Northern Egypt(lower Egypt is Arab Semitic White becoming more mixed moving south towards Southern Egypt(upper Egypt), then becoming more Black approaching Nubia/Kemit.Sudan(south of Egypt(lower southwestern 1/4 of Egypt was part of Nubia/Kemet/Sudan, annexed in 1521 B.C..
May 12, 2009 at 11:53 pm |
you say you didn’t censor me ok. i will post the one i did 5-11-09 again. you ready HERE IT GO. NATURE SAYS AGAIN: Bill Cosby looks like a typical Black Nubian whom lived and intermingled with the Arab Semitic White Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Jamie Farr’s skin complexion is only slightly lighter, but as YOU agreed, the two do not belong in the same ethnic category:
HERES A PICTURE OF BILL COSBY: http://www.visitshoremagazine.com/blog_shore/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/billcosby.jpg
OK NATURE LETS SEE I GET IT EVERYONE THAT IS BLACK IS NUBIAN TO YOU. OH SORRY BILL COSBYS FROM USA. AND MIXED WITH WHITE SEMITIC ARAB YOU SAY? OH BUT NATURE, YOU SAID BILL WAS BLACK SOME POST AGO. THATS RIGHT HE SURE IS BLACK JUST LIKE THAT BLACK/BROWN SKIN EGYPTIAN/KEMETIAN ON THE MURAL LETS LOOK AT JAMIE FARR; WITHOUT HIS TAN http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/39427/tn-500_1.jpg NO JAMIE DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE EGYPTIAN IN THE MURAL, NOR IS HE CLOSE TO BILLS COMPLEXION. FAR FROM IT. HE CAN DEFINITELY PASS FOR THAT WHITE GUY IN BETWEEN THE NUBIAN AND EGYPTIAN. Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above. Now you say J1 is MOST abundant in the arabian peninsula (10-75%). OK. HAPLOGROUP E IS ABUNDANT IN ALL REGIONS IN AFRICA AND IN SOME POPULATIONS IT MAKES UP NEARLY 100% OF THE Y-DNA. (Source Genebase tutorials) and it is a highly diversified haplogroup with many subclades that have unique histories and distributions, including regions outside of Africa in nearby ASIA ad EUROPE. Haplogroup E AND ITS SUBCLADES ENCOMPASS EPISODES FROM EARLY STONE(PALEOLITHIC) AGE MIGRATIONS TO THE SPREAD OF BANTU FARMERS 2,000- 4000 YEARS AGO TO RECENT SLAVE-TRADING IN THE 19TH CENTURY THAT BROUGHT MEN WITH THIS HAPLOGROUP TO THE NEW WORLD. HAPLOGROUP E IS PRESENT IN AFRICAN AMERICANS(BLACKS LIKE BILL COSBY), According to the link you gave me its ORIGIN-DATE IS 52,000 BP AND PLACE OF ORIGIN IS IN EAST AFRICA WHICH WOULD PUT ITS TIME IN THE PALEOLITHIC PERIOD. HAPLOGROUP J COMES ABOUT 20,000 KYA LATER. WITH J1 ENTERING THE SCENE MUCH LATER THEN THAT 10-5 KYA. Now notice from the TRACING PAST HUMAN MALE… REPORT he says clade E3B(E-M215)….the CLADE OF HAPLOGROUP E….INTRODUCED CHROMOSOMES IN NORTHEASTERN AFRICA FROM EASTERN AFRICA IN THE UPPER PALEOLITHIC PERIOD, BRINGING FORTH SUBCLADE E-M78. BETWEEN 23.9 KY AGO…..Haplogroup J was young on the scene then, some 7,000 yrs old still up in its place of origin. HG E was already about 30,000 yrs old then….AND 17.3 KY AGO. SO these people in HG E-78 were already in NORTHEAST AFRICA (KEMET/EGYPT) INCLUDED 23.9KY AGO. WASN’T NO J1 THEN. Now from LEVANT VERSES THE HORN…..REPORT SAYS..SINCE THE E3B-M35 LINEAGES APPEAR TO BE CONFINED MOSTLY TO THE SUB-SAHARAN POPULATIONS, IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT THE INITIAL MIGRATIONS TOWARD NORTH AFRICA FROM THE SOUTH PRIMARLIY INVOLVED DERIVATIVE E3B-M35 LINEATES. THESE INCLUDED E3B1-M78, A HAPLOGROUP ESPECIALLY COMMON IN ETHIOPIA(23%), AND , PERHAPS, E3B2-123(2%)….THE DATA SUGGEST THAT TWO LATER EXPANSIONS MAY HAVE FOLLOWED; ONE EASTWARD ALONG THE LEVANTINE CORRIDOR INTO THE NEAR EAST AND THE OTHER TOWARD NORTHWESTERN AFRICA. Remember now that Northwest africa is where the ancestors of the berbers were in the paleolithic period. So not only were these people migrating to the northeastern part of africa, they also went into the NEAR EAST AND NORTH WEST. BOTH ROUTES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISSEMINATION OF E3B1-M78. HOWEVER, THE E3B3-M123 CHROMOSOMES MAY HAVE SPREAD PREDOMINANTLY TOWARD THE EAST, WHEREAS E3B2 M81, WHICH IS PRESENT IN RELATIVELY HIGH LEVELS IN MOROCCO(33%) AND 69% IN MOROCCAN ARABS AND MOROCCAN BERBERS, RESPECTIVELY. But NATURE I THOUGHT ARABS WERE SUPPOSE TO BE J1. YOU WERE WRONG. THEY ALSO HAVE ARABS WITH HG E. Now let me add some more people to this HG-E NILO-SAHARAN SPEAKING GROUPS INCLUDING FUR, BORGU, AND MASALIT. HAPLOGROUP E 4 DIFFERENT HAPLOTYPES ACCOUNTS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CHROMOSOMES AND IS WIDE SPREAD IN THE SUDAN 34.4%. MASALIT-3-M78 REPRESENT 74.5% . E-M215 IS FOUND TO OCCUR MORE IN NILO-SAHARAN RATHER THAN AFROASIAN SPEAKING GROUPS. E-M78 WAS DISECTED AND CONSIST OF SEVERAL WELL ESTABLISHED SUBCLADES IT IS COMMON AMOUNG MOST SUDANESE POPS. IT HIGHEST FREQUENCY AMONG THOSE OF WESTERN (PARTICULARLY DARFUR) THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN. THE SUBCLADES OF M-78 ARE E-V12 AND E-V22 AND THEY ARE VERY COMMON IN N.AFRICA. E-V12 IS THE PREDOMINANT SUBCLADE OF M78 AMOUNG SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS WHICH FORM A GENETIC CONTINUM WITH THE NUBIANS THAT SHARE COMPARABLE FREQUENCIES WITH THEIR KIN IN SOUTHERN EGYPT.(mind you these are the same Nubians THAT YOU SAID ARE BLACK WHOSE VARIOUS SHADES PRESENTED ON THE WALLS OF THE TOMB OF HUY CAN ALSO BE COMPARED WITH THE WHO? SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS. E-V12 ACCOUNTS FOR 19.3% AMOUNGST THE SUDANESE. This is a fine example of the genetic connection to correspond with the historical connection of the ancient nubians and the southern counter parts in kemet(egypt) also the northern extention. HOWEVER IT ALSO SHOWS YOU THAT THERE IS A PALEOLITHIC CONNECTION COMING FROM EAST AFRICA (WHERE BLACK PEOPLE LIVED) WITH THE BERBER WHO WERE ORIGINALY BLACK(LIKE THE TUAREGS) HOWEVER THEY BECAME MORE MIXED WITH THE WHITE POPULATION LATER ON. CHECK THE HISTORICAL RECORDS ON THIS. OTHERS WITH E3B1 77.^% SOMALIS OROMOS ETHIOPIA, 35.9% , ETHIOPIAN AMHARAS 22.9%, EGYPTIANS 20%, SUDANESE 17.5% KENYANS(15-1%) E3B1 CLUSTER y BANTUS FROM KENYA, N. EGYPT MORROCO AND NIGER. I can go on, but im going to break and let you assimilate this. J1 IS FOUND IN AFRICA (5-30%) BUT LIMITED TO THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST CORNER. WITH ALL OF THIS IT IS CLEAR TO SEE THAT THE PREDOMINATE HAPLOGROUP IN AFRICA IS E AND ITS SUBCLADES INCLUDED. AND CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NATURE EGYPT(KEMET) IS APART OF AFRICA. IF THERE WAS ANY WHITE SEMITIC ARABS IN ANCIENT KEMET(EGYPT) THEY WERE IN THE MINOR NOT THE MAJOR. AND AS I SAID THEY CAME AS IMMIGRANTS NOT FOUNDERS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION. AND IT WAS THE BLACK KEMETIANS WHO FOUNDED THAT CIVILIZATION. WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT THERE TODAY! NOT YOUR MYSTERIOUS WHITE SEMITIC ARABS. AS FOR ARABS AND ARABIA ….; To Be continued
May 12, 2009 at 11:58 pm |
MAY COMMENT DIDN’T GO THRU AGAIN NATURE!
May 13, 2009 at 12:02 am |
Where is this post nature. you say you didn’t censor me ok. i will post the one i did 5-11-09 again. you ready HERE IT GO. NATURE SAYS AGAIN: Bill Cosby looks like a typical Black Nubian whom lived and intermingled with the Arab Semitic White Ancient and Modern Egyptians. Jamie Farr’s skin complexion is only slightly lighter, but as YOU agreed, the two do not belong in the same ethnic category:
HERES A PICTURE OF BILL COSBY: http://www.visitshoremagazine.com/blog_shore/wp-content/uploads/2008/10/billcosby.jpg
OK NATURE LETS SEE I GET IT EVERYONE THAT IS BLACK IS NUBIAN TO YOU. OH SORRY BILL COSBYS FROM USA. AND MIXED WITH WHITE SEMITIC ARAB YOU SAY? OH BUT NATURE, YOU SAID BILL WAS BLACK SOME POST AGO. THATS RIGHT HE SURE IS BLACK JUST LIKE THAT BLACK/BROWN SKIN EGYPTIAN/KEMETIAN ON THE MURAL LETS LOOK AT JAMIE FARR; WITHOUT HIS TAN http://images.broadwayworld.com/upload/39427/tn-500_1.jpg NO JAMIE DOESN’T LOOK LIKE THE EGYPTIAN IN THE MURAL, NOR IS HE CLOSE TO BILLS COMPLEXION. FAR FROM IT. HE CAN DEFINITELY PASS FOR THAT WHITE GUY IN BETWEEN THE NUBIAN AND EGYPTIAN. Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above. Now you say J1 is MOST abundant in the arabian peninsula (10-75%). OK. HAPLOGROUP E IS ABUNDANT IN ALL REGIONS IN AFRICA AND IN SOME POPULATIONS IT MAKES UP NEARLY 100% OF THE Y-DNA. (Source Genebase tutorials) and it is a highly diversified haplogroup with many subclades that have unique histories and distributions, including regions outside of Africa in nearby ASIA ad EUROPE. Haplogroup E AND ITS SUBCLADES ENCOMPASS EPISODES FROM EARLY STONE(PALEOLITHIC) AGE MIGRATIONS TO THE SPREAD OF BANTU FARMERS 2,000- 4000 YEARS AGO TO RECENT SLAVE-TRADING IN THE 19TH CENTURY THAT BROUGHT MEN WITH THIS HAPLOGROUP TO THE NEW WORLD. HAPLOGROUP E IS PRESENT IN AFRICAN AMERICANS(BLACKS LIKE BILL COSBY), According to the link you gave me its ORIGIN-DATE IS 52,000 BP AND PLACE OF ORIGIN IS IN EAST AFRICA WHICH WOULD PUT ITS TIME IN THE PALEOLITHIC PERIOD. HAPLOGROUP J COMES ABOUT 20,000 KYA LATER. WITH J1 ENTERING THE SCENE MUCH LATER THEN THAT 10-5 KYA. Now notice from the TRACING PAST HUMAN MALE… REPORT he says clade E3B(E-M215)….the CLADE OF HAPLOGROUP E….INTRODUCED CHROMOSOMES IN NORTHEASTERN AFRICA FROM EASTERN AFRICA IN THE UPPER PALEOLITHIC PERIOD, BRINGING FORTH SUBCLADE E-M78. BETWEEN 23.9 KY AGO…..Haplogroup J was young on the scene then, some 7,000 yrs old still up in its place of origin. HG E was already about 30,000 yrs old then….AND 17.3 KY AGO. SO these people in HG E-78 were already in NORTHEAST AFRICA (KEMET/EGYPT) INCLUDED 23.9KY AGO. WASN’T NO J1 THEN. Now from LEVANT VERSES THE HORN…..REPORT SAYS..SINCE THE E3B-M35 LINEAGES APPEAR TO BE CONFINED MOSTLY TO THE SUB-SAHARAN POPULATIONS, IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT THE INITIAL MIGRATIONS TOWARD NORTH AFRICA FROM THE SOUTH PRIMARLIY INVOLVED DERIVATIVE E3B-M35 LINEATES. THESE INCLUDED E3B1-M78, A HAPLOGROUP ESPECIALLY COMMON IN ETHIOPIA(23%), AND , PERHAPS, E3B2-123(2%)….THE DATA SUGGEST THAT TWO LATER EXPANSIONS MAY HAVE FOLLOWED; ONE EASTWARD ALONG THE LEVANTINE CORRIDOR INTO THE NEAR EAST AND THE OTHER TOWARD NORTHWESTERN AFRICA. Remember now that Northwest africa is where the ancestors of the berbers were in the paleolithic period. So not only were these people migrating to the northeastern part of africa, they also went into the NEAR EAST AND NORTH WEST. BOTH ROUTES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISSEMINATION OF E3B1-M78. HOWEVER, THE E3B3-M123 CHROMOSOMES MAY HAVE SPREAD PREDOMINANTLY TOWARD THE EAST, WHEREAS E3B2 M81, WHICH IS PRESENT IN RELATIVELY HIGH LEVELS IN MOROCCO(33%) AND 69% IN MOROCCAN ARABS AND MOROCCAN BERBERS, RESPECTIVELY. But NATURE I THOUGHT ARABS WERE SUPPOSE TO BE J1. YOU WERE WRONG. THEY ALSO HAVE ARABS WITH HG E. Now let me add some more people to this HG-E NILO-SAHARAN SPEAKING GROUPS INCLUDING FUR, BORGU, AND MASALIT. HAPLOGROUP E 4 DIFFERENT HAPLOTYPES ACCOUNTS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CHROMOSOMES AND IS WIDE SPREAD IN THE SUDAN 34.4%. MASALIT-3-M78 REPRESENT 74.5% . E-M215 IS FOUND TO OCCUR MORE IN NILO-SAHARAN RATHER THAN AFROASIAN SPEAKING GROUPS. E-M78 WAS DISECTED AND CONSIST OF SEVERAL WELL ESTABLISHED SUBCLADES IT IS COMMON AMOUNG MOST SUDANESE POPS. IT HIGHEST FREQUENCY AMONG THOSE OF WESTERN (PARTICULARLY DARFUR) THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN. THE SUBCLADES OF M-78 ARE E-V12 AND E-V22 AND THEY ARE VERY COMMON IN N.AFRICA. E-V12 IS THE PREDOMINANT SUBCLADE OF M78 AMOUNG SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS WHICH FORM A GENETIC CONTINUM WITH THE NUBIANS THAT SHARE COMPARABLE FREQUENCIES WITH THEIR KIN IN SOUTHERN EGYPT.(mind you these are the same Nubians THAT YOU SAID ARE BLACK WHOSE VARIOUS SHADES PRESENTED ON THE WALLS OF THE TOMB OF HUY CAN ALSO BE COMPARED WITH THE WHO? SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS. E-V12 ACCOUNTS FOR 19.3% AMOUNGST THE SUDANESE. This is a fine example of the genetic connection to correspond with the historical connection of the ancient nubians and the southern counter parts in kemet(egypt) also the northern extention. HOWEVER IT ALSO SHOWS YOU THAT THERE IS A PALEOLITHIC CONNECTION COMING FROM EAST AFRICA (WHERE BLACK PEOPLE LIVED) WITH THE BERBER WHO WERE ORIGINALY BLACK(LIKE THE TUAREGS) HOWEVER THEY BECAME MORE MIXED WITH THE WHITE POPULATION LATER ON. CHECK THE HISTORICAL RECORDS ON THIS. OTHERS WITH E3B1 77.^% SOMALIS OROMOS ETHIOPIA, 35.9% , ETHIOPIAN AMHARAS 22.9%, EGYPTIANS 20%, SUDANESE 17.5% KENYANS(15-1%) E3B1 CLUSTER y BANTUS FROM KENYA, N. EGYPT MORROCO AND NIGER. I can go on, but im going to break and let you assimilate this. J1 IS FOUND IN AFRICA (5-30%) BUT LIMITED TO THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST CORNER. WITH ALL OF THIS IT IS CLEAR TO SEE THAT THE PREDOMINATE HAPLOGROUP IN AFRICA IS E AND ITS SUBCLADES INCLUDED. AND CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NATURE EGYPT(KEMET) IS APART OF AFRICA. IF THERE WAS ANY WHITE SEMITIC ARABS IN ANCIENT KEMET(EGYPT) THEY WERE IN THE MINOR NOT THE MAJOR. AND AS I SAID THEY CAME AS IMMIGRANTS NOT FOUNDERS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION. AND IT WAS THE BLACK KEMETIANS WHO FOUNDED THAT CIVILIZATION. WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT THERE TODAY! NOT YOUR MYSTERIOUS WHITE SEMITIC ARABS. AS FOR ARABS AND ARABIA ….; To Be continued
May 13, 2009 at 12:54 am |
I found and approved it-never was notified-I did NOT decline it-I responded to it.
May 13, 2009 at 9:19 pm |
what about this part of my comment nature: NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above.
May 13, 2009 at 9:25 pm |
see nature you still censoring. you didn’t post the one i just sent. : I’ll bet you won’t post this one either. Now you say J1 is MOST abundant in the arabian peninsula (10-75%). OK. HAPLOGROUP E IS ABUNDANT IN ALL REGIONS IN AFRICA AND IN SOME POPULATIONS IT MAKES UP NEARLY 100% OF THE Y-DNA. (Source Genebase tutorials) and it is a highly diversified haplogroup with many subclades that have unique histories and distributions, including regions outside of Africa in nearby ASIA ad EUROPE. Haplogroup E AND ITS SUBCLADES ENCOMPASS EPISODES FROM EARLY STONE(PALEOLITHIC) AGE MIGRATIONS TO THE SPREAD OF BANTU FARMERS 2,000- 4000 YEARS AGO TO RECENT SLAVE-TRADING IN THE 19TH CENTURY THAT BROUGHT MEN WITH THIS HAPLOGROUP TO THE NEW WORLD. HAPLOGROUP E IS PRESENT IN AFRICAN AMERICANS(BLACKS LIKE BILL COSBY), According to the link you gave me its ORIGIN-DATE IS 52,000 BP AND PLACE OF ORIGIN IS IN EAST AFRICA WHICH WOULD PUT ITS TIME IN THE PALEOLITHIC PERIOD. HAPLOGROUP J COMES ABOUT 20,000 KYA LATER. WITH J1 ENTERING THE SCENE MUCH LATER THEN THAT 10-5 KYA. Now notice from the TRACING PAST HUMAN MALE… REPORT he says clade E3B(E-M215)….the CLADE OF HAPLOGROUP E….INTRODUCED CHROMOSOMES IN NORTHEASTERN AFRICA FROM EASTERN AFRICA IN THE UPPER PALEOLITHIC PERIOD, BRINGING FORTH SUBCLADE E-M78. BETWEEN 23.9 KY AGO…..Haplogroup J was young on the scene then, some 7,000 yrs old still up in its place of origin. HG E was already about 30,000 yrs old then….AND 17.3 KY AGO. SO these people in HG E-78 were already in NORTHEAST AFRICA (KEMET/EGYPT) INCLUDED 23.9KY AGO. WASN’T NO J1 THEN. Now from LEVANT VERSES THE HORN…..REPORT SAYS..SINCE THE E3B-M35 LINEAGES APPEAR TO BE CONFINED MOSTLY TO THE SUB-SAHARAN POPULATIONS, IT IS CONCEIVABLE THAT THE INITIAL MIGRATIONS TOWARD NORTH AFRICA FROM THE SOUTH PRIMARLIY INVOLVED DERIVATIVE E3B-M35 LINEATES. THESE INCLUDED E3B1-M78, A HAPLOGROUP ESPECIALLY COMMON IN ETHIOPIA(23%), AND , PERHAPS, E3B2-123(2%)….THE DATA SUGGEST THAT TWO LATER EXPANSIONS MAY HAVE FOLLOWED; ONE EASTWARD ALONG THE LEVANTINE CORRIDOR INTO THE NEAR EAST AND THE OTHER TOWARD NORTHWESTERN AFRICA. Remember now that Northwest africa is where the ancestors of the berbers were in the paleolithic period. So not only were these people migrating to the northeastern part of africa, they also went into the NEAR EAST AND NORTH WEST. BOTH ROUTES ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THE DISSEMINATION OF E3B1-M78. HOWEVER, THE E3B3-M123 CHROMOSOMES MAY HAVE SPREAD PREDOMINANTLY TOWARD THE EAST, WHEREAS E3B2 M81, WHICH IS PRESENT IN RELATIVELY HIGH LEVELS IN MOROCCO(33%) AND 69% IN MOROCCAN ARABS AND MOROCCAN BERBERS, RESPECTIVELY. But NATURE I THOUGHT ARABS WERE SUPPOSE TO BE J1. YOU WERE WRONG. THEY ALSO HAVE ARABS WITH HG E. Now let me add some more people to this HG-E NILO-SAHARAN SPEAKING GROUPS INCLUDING FUR, BORGU, AND MASALIT. HAPLOGROUP E 4 DIFFERENT HAPLOTYPES ACCOUNTS FOR THE MAJORITY OF THE CHROMOSOMES AND IS WIDE SPREAD IN THE SUDAN 34.4%. MASALIT-3-M78 REPRESENT 74.5% . E-M215 IS FOUND TO OCCUR MORE IN NILO-SAHARAN RATHER THAN AFROASIAN SPEAKING GROUPS. E-M78 WAS DISECTED AND CONSIST OF SEVERAL WELL ESTABLISHED SUBCLADES IT IS COMMON AMOUNG MOST SUDANESE POPS. IT HIGHEST FREQUENCY AMONG THOSE OF WESTERN (PARTICULARLY DARFUR) THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN. THE SUBCLADES OF M-78 ARE E-V12 AND E-V22 AND THEY ARE VERY COMMON IN N.AFRICA. E-V12 IS THE PREDOMINANT SUBCLADE OF M78 AMOUNG SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS WHICH FORM A GENETIC CONTINUM WITH THE NUBIANS THAT SHARE COMPARABLE FREQUENCIES WITH THEIR KIN IN SOUTHERN EGYPT.(mind you these are the same Nubians THAT YOU SAID ARE BLACK WHOSE VARIOUS SHADES PRESENTED ON THE WALLS OF THE TOMB OF HUY CAN ALSO BE COMPARED WITH THE WHO? SOUTHERN EGYPTIANS. E-V12 ACCOUNTS FOR 19.3% AMOUNGST THE SUDANESE. This is a fine example of the genetic connection to correspond with the historical connection of the ancient nubians and the southern counter parts in kemet(egypt) also the northern extention. HOWEVER IT ALSO SHOWS YOU THAT THERE IS A PALEOLITHIC CONNECTION COMING FROM EAST AFRICA (WHERE BLACK PEOPLE LIVED) WITH THE BERBER WHO WERE ORIGINALY BLACK(LIKE THE TUAREGS) HOWEVER THEY BECAME MORE MIXED WITH THE WHITE POPULATION LATER ON. CHECK THE HISTORICAL RECORDS ON THIS. OTHERS WITH E3B1 77.^% SOMALIS OROMOS ETHIOPIA, 35.9% , ETHIOPIAN AMHARAS 22.9%, EGYPTIANS 20%, SUDANESE 17.5% KENYANS(15-1%) E3B1 CLUSTER y BANTUS FROM KENYA, N. EGYPT MORROCO AND NIGER. I can go on, but im going to break and let you assimilate this. J1 IS FOUND IN AFRICA (5-30%) BUT LIMITED TO THE NORTH AND NORTHEAST CORNER. WITH ALL OF THIS IT IS CLEAR TO SEE THAT THE PREDOMINATE HAPLOGROUP IN AFRICA IS E AND ITS SUBCLADES INCLUDED. AND CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN TOLD NATURE EGYPT(KEMET) IS APART OF AFRICA. IF THERE WAS ANY WHITE SEMITIC ARABS IN ANCIENT KEMET(EGYPT) THEY WERE IN THE MINOR NOT THE MAJOR. AND AS I SAID THEY CAME AS IMMIGRANTS NOT FOUNDERS OF THE ANCIENT EGYPTIAN CIVILIZATION. AND IT WAS THE BLACK KEMETIANS WHO FOUNDED THAT CIVILIZATION. WHICH ARE STILL PRESENT THERE TODAY! NOT YOUR MYSTERIOUS WHITE SEMITIC ARABS. AS FOR ARABS AND ARABIA ….; To Be continued
May 13, 2009 at 9:27 pm |
OK. What about this one i posted before that one: Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above.
May 13, 2009 at 9:41 pm |
Nature post the facts about the near east i presented. If you think i am wrong then produce your facts. Why you leaving this comment out? This knowledge ain’t a secret. It just shows you how people can be confused about the terms near east, middle east, southwest asia. Now i already gave you the facts about the name kemet which we call present day egypt. So i won’t lose anymore time with you on that issue. CASE CLOSED. NATURES COTINUES;GUESS what another name is for the Near EAS-MIDDLE EAST if you haven’t guessed it-THIS INCLUDES NORTH AFRICA: EL SAYS; CHECK THESE LINKS NATURE http://www.worldatlas.com/webimage/countrys/asia/neareast.htm http://www.ethnomusic.ucla.edu/ensembles/worldmusic/neareast/map.htm http://www.geocities.com/Athens/Acropolis/7987/neastm_1.html http://www.passia.org/palestine_facts/MAPS/1967-post-june-war-israel.htmlhttp://www.ifad.org/events/remittances/maps/middle.htm http://www.answers.com/topic/near-east http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif http://www.reisenett.no/map_collection/middle_east_and_asia/SW_Asia_pol96.jpg http://cnx.org/content/m17887/latest/ NOTICE HOW THE COUNTRIES THAT MAKE UP THE NEAR EAST VARIES? Southwest asia as well. HOWEVER I WILL TAKE A QUOTE FROM THE LINK YOU POST ABOUT THE NEAR EAST;http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Near_East It says NEAR EAST TODAY IS AN AMBIGUOUS TERM THAT COVERS DIFFERENT COUNTRIES FOR ARCHELOGISTS AND HISTORIANS ON ONE HAND, AND FOR POLITICAL SCIENTISTS, ECONOMISTS, AND JOURNALISTS. ON THE OTHER. Further down it says THE TERM AS USED BY WESTERN ARCHAEOLOGISTS, GEOGRAPHERS, AND HISTORIANS REFERS TO THE REGION ENCOMPASSING ANATOLIA (THE ASIAN PORTION OF MODERN TURKEY), THE LEVANT (SYRIA, LEBANON, JORDAN, ISRAEL AND THE PALESTINIAN TERRITORIES), MESOPOTAMIA (IRAQ) AND TRANSCAUCASIA (GEORGIA, ARMENIA AND AZERBAIJAN). IN MODERN POLITICAL AND JOURNALISTIC CONTEXTS, THIS REGION IS USUALLY SUBSUMED INTO THE WIDER MIDDLE EAST WHILE THE TERMS NEAR EAST OR SOUTHWEST ASIA ARE PREFERRED IN ARCHAEOLOGICAL, GEOGRAPHIC, HISTORICAL AND POPULATION GENETIC CONTEXTS. And thats just what we are dealing with, the population genetic context of the near east. Which would consist of the Near Eastern countries listed above.
May 13, 2009 at 10:29 pm |
Still don’t want to post the near east comment uh. well check this out all these letter and numbers like Haplogroup E, E1 and E2 E3b1 etc actually represent groups of people who carry these genes so. Lets look at some of the tribes i mention who have the E3b1 in them. the Amhara of ethiopa 22.9% ,http://saintesaradekali.com/images/woman%2520of%2520Amhara%2520Tribe.jpg the oromos of ethiopia 35.9% http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/RHPOD/724-794%7EMarket-at-Denaba-Oromo-Country-Kaffa-Province-Ethiopia-Africa-Poster.jpg egyptians 20% http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.pbase.com/g6/82/643382/2/86057567.7VgyMj2Y.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/perrona/image/86057567&usg=__HrEzsb7jZOm7p3gNHgV1_RmtddA=&h=474&w=800&sz=70&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=WP1z0FYQ9kGKbM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Btribes%2Bin%2Bsouthern%2Begypt%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG. THOSE WITH THE E-M78 MASALIT WITH THE HIGHEST FREQUENCIES AND THE FUR PEOPLE (DAR FUR) http://www.sudan101.com/images/masalit.jpg THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN subclade of E-M78 E-V12 19.3% and E-v32 (51.8%) the most common sublades among sudanese Highest frequencies amoung beja. You know what theres just so many black people here just check the links for yourself HERE THEY ARE:http://saintesaradekali.com/images/woman%2520of%2520Amhara%2520Tribe.jpg http://www.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p100293.jpg http://www.adonaytour.com/assets/dynamic/AMHARAWOMAN.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3564/3320201310_f67259c17b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3245/3100997864_584ede8c94.jpg http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1606/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1606-46792.jpg http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.shepherdsongfarm.com/images/ethiopiaproducer.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.shepherdsongfarm.com/activities/index.htm&usg=__qA0VswmMzGw0PbfyBk35cHe-en8=&h=349&w=431&sz=57&hl=en&start=31&tbnid=PvFWw8k-Hwq_BM:&tbnh=102&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bamhara%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D20 http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/RHPOD/724-794%7EMarket-at-Denaba-Oromo-Country-Kaffa-Province-Ethiopia-Africa-Poster.jpg http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/9035/jeune_fille_oromo_s_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.trekearth.com/trip.php%3Fcountry%3DEthiopia&usg=__jDvYKxJAo0wxccTBx2Ej0mWACoY=&h=150&w=150&sz=7&hl=en&start=19&tbnid=fLj346pe6XXJcM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Boromo%2Bof%2Bethiopia%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG http://www.gadaa.com/GuyyooGobbaaAbbaGadaa.JPG http://www.sudan101.com/images/masalit.jpg http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.pbase.com/g6/82/643382/2/86057567.7VgyMj2Y.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/perrona/image/86057567&usg=__HrEzsb7jZOm7p3gNHgV1_RmtddA=&h=474&w=800&sz=70&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=WP1z0FYQ9kGKbM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Btribes%2Bin%2Bsouthern%2Begypt%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1034/1313798499_c90a3f444b.jpg http://i.pbase.com/g6/82/643382/2/86061038.pLlXIGVe.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cB2LXaxIvD4/SdQDoB1OE3I/AAAAAAAAFsQ/ZioVNmho_DE/s320/_45599968_3.jpg http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.andymack.com/mylog/images/nubians.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.andymack.com/mylog/archive_2004-m01.php&usg=__MmBGloQkUWsgy_BnPwfsfQQgPAk=&h=316&w=430&sz=59&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=BDcRuEnuDuNTgM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bsouthern%2Begyptians%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG http://mangalorean.com/circle/images/travel/20070426egypt56.jpg http://www.fhi.org/NR/rdonlyres/e66qi4kwwerocqj2qnxau6svrfa6rubqokosxjuiyaetuxvwhxfamfh64s3hmvfnkzlpkltx7o47tg/EgyptKidsZoom.jpghttp://www.andymack.com/mylog/images/nubians.jpg http://www.standeyo.com/C2C_090218/Egypt3.food.riot.jpghttp http://www.davidosler.com/egypt%20strikers.jpg http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://poetwomen.50megs.com/images/door_of_kush_woman_2_237x250.jpg&imgrefurl=http://poetwomen.50megs.com/about.html&usg=___FgFQ7JrFKtcxahqlxDZ4svj7tQ=&h=250&w=237&sz=20&hl=en&start=7&tbnid=69775Asbk7aJlM:&tbnh=111&tbnw=105&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2B%2Bblack%2Bpeople%2Bin%2Bamerca%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1&um=1 ON BLACK ARABS ISSUE CHECK THIS OUT:http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0822/p06s01-woaf.html WHICH ON IS THE ARAB AND WHICH ON IS THE AFRICAN? CHECK THESE OUT FIRST. THEN I’LL GIVE YOU SOME MORE OF THE BLACK ARAB TRIBES IN NORTHEAST AFRICA.
May 13, 2009 at 10:33 pm |
WHATS UP NATURE WERES MY POST? AM I MOVING TO FAST FOR YOU OR SOMETHING. I GOT PLENTY MORE TO GO. BELIEVE THAT.
May 13, 2009 at 10:36 pm |
HERE I’LL POST IN SHORTER SEGMENTS Still don’t want to post the near east comment uh. well check this out all these letter and numbers like Haplogroup E, E1 and E2 E3b1 etc actually represent groups of people who carry these genes so. Lets look at some of the tribes i mention who have the E3b1 in them. the Amhara of ethiopa 22.9% ,http://saintesaradekali.com/images/woman%2520of%2520Amhara%2520Tribe.jpg t
May 13, 2009 at 10:39 pm |
SORRY MESS UP ON THE LINK.T he tribes i mention who have the E3b1 in them. the Amhara of ethiopa 22.9% http://saintesaradekali.com/images/woman%2520of%2520Amhara%2520Tribe.jpg
May 13, 2009 at 10:41 pm |
the oromos of ethiopia 35.9% http://imagecache.allposters.com/images/pic/RHPOD/724-794%7EMarket-at-Denaba-Oromo-Country-Kaffa-Province-Ethiopia-Africa-Poster.jpg
May 13, 2009 at 10:43 pm |
egyptians 20% http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.pbase.com/g6/82/643382/2/86057567.7VgyMj2Y.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/perrona/image/86057567&usg=__HrEzsb7jZOm7p3gNHgV1_RmtddA=&h=474&w=800&sz=70&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=WP1z0FYQ9kGKbM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Btribes%2Bin%2Bsouthern%2Begypt%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG.
May 13, 2009 at 10:44 pm |
THOSE WITH THE E-M78 MASALIT WITH THE HIGHEST FREQUENCIES AND THE FUR PEOPLE (DAR FUR) http://www.sudan101.com/images/masalit.jpg
May 13, 2009 at 10:51 pm |
THE BEJA IN EASTERN SUDAN subclade of E-M78 E-V12 19.3% and E-v32 (51.8%) the most common sublades among sudanese Highest frequencies amoung beja.http://www.sudan101.com/sud_arabs.htm
May 13, 2009 at 10:55 pm |
BEJA LINK http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.sudan101.com/images/suarabsticks.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.sudan101.com/sud_arabs.htm&usg=__xsORh_fca6Kg4STfGXbirLgb_nc=&h=315&w=216&sz=15&hl=en&start=8&tbnid=erfEJ55LFgw31M:&tbnh=117&tbnw=80&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bsudanese%2Barabs%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
May 13, 2009 at 10:58 pm |
NOTICE ON THAT PREVIOUS LINK THESE ARE THE SUDANESE ARABS. AND THEY ARE BLACK.
May 13, 2009 at 11:00 pm |
know what theres just so many black people here just check the links for yourself HERE THEY ARE:http://saintesaradekali.com/images/woman%2520of%2520Amhara%2520Tribe.jpg http://www.joshuaproject.net/profiles/photos/p100293.jpg http://www.adonaytour.com/assets/dynamic/AMHARAWOMAN.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3564/3320201310_f67259c17b.jpg http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3245/3100997864_584ede8c94.jpg http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1606/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1606-46792.jpg
May 13, 2009 at 11:02 pm |
ON THE BLACK ARABS ISSUE CHECK THIS OUT:http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0822/p06s01-woaf.html WHICH ONE IS THE ARAB AND WHICH ONE IS THE AFRICAN? BOTH ARE BLACK CHECK THESE OUT
May 13, 2009 at 11:06 pm |
http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/0822/p06s01-woaf.html THIS SHOULD BE THE CORRECT LINK. BLACK ARABS ISSUE.
May 13, 2009 at 11:44 pm |
El, I can answer all of the above with one answer. J1 is most concentrated in North Africa where there are Arabs, becoming less and less frequent as you move South, Arabs mixing less and less with the Black population-All the facts you presented are in agreement with this, whether you realize it or not.Lower Egypt(Northern Egypt) is mostly Arab,becoming less and less as you move south towards Upper(Southern Egypt) and mixing with the Black Nubians/Kemetians. This continues through Northern Ethiopia and Northern Sudan.Amahara is mostly Arab Semitic White and Arab Semitic Whie/Black mix:
http://orvillejenkins.com/profiles/amhara.html
As for your so called Black Arabs(NO such thing), Many Sudanese are mixed, but call themse;lves either Black or Arab depending on their thinking.In Africa,generally, if you have mixed Black/other heritage, you are considered Black. As the article said, MANY ARE PRODUCTS OF MIXING FROM ARAB SLAVE OWNERS AND BLACK SUDANESE.As I mentioned before, the Janjaweed are Black Sudanese whom turned on their own Black Sudanese ethnicity. They learned Arabic,accepted Islam, and Arab culture. Many ignorant people call them Black Arabs-the Black Sudanes call them TRAITORS(WAR in Sudan is BETWEEN indigent Black Sudanese and Immigrant Arab Semitic White). The photo of the man and his wife is poorly lite-I enhanced it, when you see the ladies features, you will know she is mixed-prominent nose thin lips, but mostly Black skull shape and skin coloring.Your own facts show the E3 groups migrated NORTH from sub-sahara-REMEMBER EGYPT is in supra(upper)-sahara. Almost all your pictures represent a mixed peoples(Arab/Black). None of your FACTS invalidate, and, actually support what I have said. The only things so far going against what I have said, is YOUR MISINTREPERTATION of facts and what I have said.NOTE: I never denied Blacks were in the area where Egypt was , but the Arabs drove them out and formed the Ancient and Modern Egyptians(the article states, 5,000 B.C.-YOUR facts state J1 appeared there 7,000 years ago-essentially agrreeing with 5,000 B.C.).BOTTOMLINE-Your FACTS, NOT YOUR Interpretation of them, actually support what I have said. For you to continue insisting Arab Semitic White and Blacks are the same ethnicity-THEY ARE NOT EVEN YOUR OWN FACTS PROVE THIS-is not making you out in the best light-to be honest, my impression is you are using facts that you do not understand clearly. This is not meant offensively, but when you jump back and forth from one side to the,other, misinterpreting the facts, it does not look good on you. I DO NOT CENSOR anything.Let me knoW when your answers do NOT appear.
May 14, 2009 at 7:19 pm |
No nature i have shown you pictures of black egyptians and black sudanese and black ethiopians and semitic black arabs in africa and afro-arabians, i have showed you the majority of the people who occupy the nile river valley from the north to the south 4.100 miles along the river. Show me the white guy there. Got more for you http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i1.trekearth.com/photos/9035/jeune_fille_oromo_s_.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.trekearth.com/trip.php%3Fcountry%3DEthiopia&usg=__jDvYKxJAo0wxccTBx2Ej0mWACoY=&h=150&w=150&sz=7&hl=en&start=19&tbnid=fLj346pe6XXJcM:&tbnh=96&tbnw=96&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Boromo%2Bof%2Bethiopia%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG http://www.gadaa.com/GuyyooGobbaaAbbaGadaa.JPG http://www.sudan101.com/images/masalit.jpg http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://i.pbase.com/g6/82/643382/2/86057567.7VgyMj2Y.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.pbase.com/perrona/image/86057567&usg=__HrEzsb7jZOm7p3gNHgV1_RmtddA=&h=474&w=800&sz=70&hl=en&start=4&tbnid=WP1z0FYQ9kGKbM:&tbnh=85&tbnw=143&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Btribes%2Bin%2Bsouthern%2Begypt%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG
May 14, 2009 at 12:04 am |
El, so far, you have shown me pictures of true Black Sudanese, true Arabs, and true mixes (Amahara, Ethiopia). The facts, themselves, NOT your interpretation, back what I have said all along-Arab Semitic White and Blacks are two DIFFERENT ethnicities and the Arabs(J1) were the Ancient Egyptians(5,000 B.C.-7,000 years ago-same thing-take your pick) .You wish to insist either Arabs are Black(they are NOT, even by YOUR own evidence) or the Black Nubians were the Ancient Egyptians(not true, even by your own evidence and mine-J1 and Haplocyte V in Egypt(northern(Lower Egypt)) in particular. I have also stated there were mixing of the two ethnicities,your ,and, my facts back this up.
May 14, 2009 at 7:30 pm |
NATURE SAYS; MANY ARE PRODUCTS OF MIXING FROM ARAB SLAVE OWNERS AND BLACK SUDANESE. THE BLACK JAALIN/GAALIN TRIBE IN SUDAN WOULD LAUGH AT YOU FOR THAT ONE. THEY CLAIM DESCENT FROM PROPHT MUHAMMAD’S (PBUH) FAMILY? THEY WEREN’T SLAVES. WHAT ABOUT THE BAKARA THEY FROM ARABIA? WHAT ABOUT THE DAR HAMID FROM ARABIA? WHAT ABOUT THE BODOUIN TRIBES FROM ARABIAN DESERTS? NATURE I THINK EITHER YOU ARE VERY INGORANT TO BLACK HISTORYT(NOT AMERICAN HISTORY) OR YOU JUST TRYING TO HIDE THE TRUTH. ON AND NATURE WHITE PEOPLE WERE SLAVES AS WELL.
May 14, 2009 at 7:20 pm |
Hey nature which one of those groups Have J1 in them?
May 14, 2009 at 7:34 pm |
SORRY FOR THE MISPELLS. NATURE WHICH ONE OF THESE GROUPS WERE SLAVES? http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1034/1313798499_c90a3f444b.jpg http://i.pbase.com/g6/82/643382/2/86061038.pLlXIGVe.jpg http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_cB2LXaxIvD4/SdQDoB1OE3I/AAAAAAAAFsQ/ZioVNmho_DE/s320/_45599968_3.jpg http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.andymack.com/mylog/images/nubians.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.andymack.com/mylog/archive_2004-m01.php&usg=__MmBGloQkUWsgy_BnPwfsfQQgPAk=&h=316&w=430&sz=59&hl=en&start=3&tbnid=BDcRuEnuDuNTgM:&tbnh=93&tbnw=126&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bsouthern%2Begyptians%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG http://mangalorean.com/circle/images/travel/20070426egypt56.jpg
May 14, 2009 at 8:49 pm |
They are Black Nubians(highest concentration in Southern(Upper Egypt)
May 14, 2009 at 8:42 pm |
El, those people are mixed Arab Semitic White and Black Sudanese-many Sudanese do not wish to be called Black so go with their Arab heritage.The people of the Arabian Peninsula are Arab Semitic White-again-you go solely on skin color.Actually, most of the peoples you have shown, YOU CAN SEE THE ARAB SEMITIC WHITE heritage in them-the narrow prominent large nose, thin lips and high forehead-Jamie Farr chacteristics, compared to the flat, broad nose, and thick lips Bill Cosby characterisics.The following links indicate the Black and Arab Semitic White
mixes-these tribes by the way are in Sudan, part of North Africa(Arab Semitic White):
JAALIN/GAALIN & Boudin
Click to access Guhayna.pdf
BAKARA
http://www.pallme.com/family/uk_Ignaz_Pallme.htm
THE DAR HAMID
http://frontiers.org/northeastafrica
You still wish to say Arab Semitic Whites and Blacks are the same ethnicity-NOT true-of course, because these links indicate mixing , you will disagree. It is not I whom is ignorant.Since most are mixed, most have J1 in them-READ YOUR OWN percentages.
The following link demonstates J1 is still highly concentrated in Northern Sudan where the Arabs are in the highest concentration and where those tribes you listed are:
“In North Africa, J1 first entered Ethiopia with the spread of Semitic speakers Eritrea (11%), Ethiopia (9%), Ethiopia-Amhara (33.3%). It spread later to North Africa in historic times (as identified by the motif YCAIIa22-YCAIIb22; Algerians 35.0%, Tunisians 31%), where it became something like a marker of the Arab expansion in the early medieval period. J1 also seems to be found with high frequency in the northern parts of Sudan (Arabs 45%, Nubians 41%, Copts 39%, Beja 36%), and present with lower frequency in the region of Darfur (Masalit 6%, Fur 6%). Haplogroup J1 may be found in as many as 20% of Egyptian males, with the frequency of this haplogroup tending to be comparatively high in the south of the country.”-Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J1_(Y-DNA)
InterpretationWhere J1 is present in many Sudanese, indicates Blacke/Arab Semitic White admixtures as in the tribes YOU listed.
May 14, 2009 at 8:43 pm |
Sorry, not a good speller
May 14, 2009 at 8:59 pm |
OH NATURE; YOU MESSED UP ON THIS ONE;The facts, themselves, NOT your interpretation, back what I have siad all along-Arab Semitic White and Blacks are two DIFFERENT ethnicities and the Arabs(J1) WHAT ABOUT THE MORROCO ARABS NATURE THEY ARE HAPLOGROUP E3B2-M81 33% OF THEM. AND ITS THE Y CHROMOSOME FROM FATHER TO SON. SO THEY CAN’T HAVE J1 IN THEM. BUT THEY ARE ARABS. YOU THINK THAT ALL ARABS HAVE J1 IN THEM, THATS WHERE YOU MADE YOUR MISTAKE. THEN NATURE SAID;Arabs mixing more and more with the Black population-All the facts you presented are in agreement with this I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH ARABS MIXING WITH SUDANESE OR ETIOPIANS BLACKS. MY POINT IS MOST OF THEM ARE BLACKS ARABS MIXING WITH BLACKS AFRICANS NATURE. AS THE LINKS CLEARY SHOW. I DIDN’T FIND ONE TRULY WHITE PERSON AMOUNGST THESE TRIBES. ITS LIKE THEY DON’T EXIST. ANOTHER MISTAKE YOU MAKE NATURE WHEN YOU SAID THIS:whether you realize it or not.Lower Egypt(Northern Egypt is mostly Arabbecoming less and less as you move south towards Upper(Southern Egypt) and mixing with the Black Nubians/Kemetians. FIRST OF ALL NATURE THE MOST SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF UPPER KEMET WAS CALL TA SETI. AND ARABS ARE ALL UP AND DOWN THE NILE RIVER VALLEY FROM THE NORTH TO THE SOUTH. AND THERE NOT WHITE OR MAYBE YOU CAN FIND A TINY DOT OF WHITE PEOPLE(I DON’T KNOW) I HAVEN’T FOUND ANY. (AND JAMIE FARR DOESN’T LIVE IN THESE COUNTRIES). YOU MAY GO TO LEBANON AND FIND A WHOLE BUNCH OF WHITE SKIN PEOPLE UP THERE BUT YOU WON’T FIND THEM PREDOMINANT IN EGYPT. MOST OF THESE PEOPLE ARE BROWN SKIN(NOT YOUR GOLDEN BROWN SKIN I GOT CHILDREN LIKE THAT), AND BLACK SKIN. HAIR VARING FROM STRAIGHT TO CURLY TO KINKY. YOU NEED TO CHECK OUT SOME OF THE BLACK ARABS IN ARABIA AND LET THEM TELL YOU WHO THEY ARE.http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/images/omani2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/&usg=__0rc-FzfAqDYhDdaIgJDYGj5DhVA=&h=240&w=172&sz=25&hl=en&start=47&tbnid=5y08jG-NfvjL1M:&tbnh=110&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bomani%2Barabs%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40%26um%3D1&um=1
May 14, 2009 at 9:01 pm |
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/images/omani2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/&usg=__0rc-FzfAqDYhDdaIgJDYGj5DhVA=&h=240&w=172&sz=25&hl=en&start=47&tbnid=5y08jG-NfvjL1M:&tbnh=110&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bomani%2Barabs%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40%26um%3D1&um=1 MESSED UP THE FIRST LINK TRY THIS ONE.
May 14, 2009 at 9:02 pm |
HEY NATURE CASE CLOSED THERES YOUR BLACK ARABS IN ARABIA!
May 15, 2009 at 12:28 am |
The Blacks YOU call Arabs ARE NOT Arabs, but true Blacks-I am Arab American and do NOT have Black features, so when you take to calling Arabs, Black, I do feel somewhat offended.Arabs are classified as Semitic White. Some famous people whom claim Black and Arab Semitic White are , the late Anwar Sadat, Iman, Lila Kebede, Arab(name) on Soul train-all had Arab Semitic White fathers and Black mothers.
Other Black/Arab Semitic White mixes:
David Williams is Half Black-1/4 Greek(Indo European Aryan White), and 1/4 Arab(Semitic White).
Chili of TLC is 1/4 Arab Semitic White, 1/4 Tamil(from India-very dark brown Indo European Aryan White), 1/4 Black, and 1/4 American Indian-very beautiful
Tell you what-ask the above people about their heritage. There are Blacks in the Arab counties, BUT THEY ARE NOT Arab.You cofuse nationality with ethnicity. Whether you want to say Blacks mixed with Arab Semitic White or Arab Semitic White mixed with Black is a mute point-the prodigy are MIXED.Your own genetic proof shows Blacks and Arab Semitic Whites as separate ethnicities.Why you insist Arabs are Black because Arabs have golden brown skin is also wrong-Arabs have different skull features, measurements, and DNA(by the way, you have not presented any DNA evidence that shows pure Arabs are Black(indeed this is what separate Arab Semitic Whites from Blacks-yes mixes do share genetic markers, but then they are mixed) NOW case is closed.
May 15, 2009 at 2:05 am |
NATURE I JUST LINKED YOU TO A SIGHT WHERE THE BLACK ARABS THEMSELVES ARE TELLING YOU THEY ARE THE ORIGINAL ARABS. I DIDN’T CALLL THEM THAT THEY CALLED THEMSELVES THAT. SO DON’T TELL ME THAT THEY ARE NOT. YOU ARE NOT PROVING ANYTHING BY REPEATING THE WORDS “WHITE SEMITIC ARABS” YOU DIDN’T EVEN WANT TO DEAL WITH THE ORIGIN OF THE WORD SEMITIC. LIKE ITS A EQUIVALENT WORD FOR WHITE. NON SENSE IT ONLY MEANS A PEOPLE WHO SPEAK A SEMITIC(AFRO-ASIATIC) LANQUAGE. IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR SKIN. CONTRARY TO WHAT YOU MAY HAVE GROWN UP BELIEVING YOU ARE IN ERROR. THE ARGUEMENT NOW IS PROVING THAT THEY ARE NOT WHO THEY SAY THEY ARE. AND YOU CALL YOUR SELF A ARAB. WERE YOU BORN IN ARABIA? I DON’T MEAN LEBANON I MEAN IN THE ARABIAN PENINSULA? NO YOU WEREN’T. YOU MIGHT BE OFFENDED BUT THE BLACK ARABS IN ARABIA ARE SAYING THAT YOU ARE NOT A PURE ARAB. SO I HAVE TO QUESTION, WHAT MAKES YOU THINK THAT YOU ARE A TRUE ARAB? BEING WHITE DOESN’T MAKE YOU A TRUE ARAB. THE BODOUINS IN ARABIA ARE BLACK AND CONTRARY TO YOUR CONTRADICTIONS THAT YOU HAVE MADE (saying if your half black and half white friends had dark hair eyes and skin they would be black) ALL THE PEOPLE I HAVE SHOWED YOU HAVE DARK HAIR EYES AND SKIN SO IN YOUR OWN WORDS THEY ARE BLACK. THIS WE AREADY KNOW YOU ARE IN DENIAL BECAUSE YOU ARE TRYING TO PROVE THAT SOMETHING IS TRUE WHEN YOU TRULLY KNOW ITS NOT. I SAY LIKE MY FELLOW BLACK ARABS IN ARABIA SAY. THE PURE ARABS ARE BLACK. AND I HAVE A WHITE GREAT GREAT GRAND PARENT IN MY LINE SOME WHERE. HOWEVER NATURE I AM STILL BLACK NOT WHITE ENGLISH. YOU SOUND SILLY WHEN YOU KEEP RUNNING THAT J1 OR J2 LIKE THATS WHAT MAKES YOU WHITE. YOU ARE WRONG AGAIN. YOU HAVE ALOT TO LEARN, BUT NOT BY TRYING TO USE CIRCULAR REASONING THAT DOES NOT LEAD TO THE POINT OF FACT. REPETITION DOESN’T PROVE ANY THING. I HAVE GIVEN YOU THE UNDISPUTABLE IRRIFUTABLE UNDENIABLE TRUTH. WHERE YOU HAVE GIVEN ME A WHOLE LOT OF REPETITIONS WITH NO FACTS. YOU HAVE TO COME BETTER THEN THAT WITH US. WHEN I SAY US I MEAN ALL THE BLACK ARABS IN ARABIA WHO ARE TELLING YOU THEY ARE THE PURE ARABS NOT YOUR JAMIE FARR BORN IN AMERICA FROM LEBONESE PARENTS. BUT BLACK ARABS BORN IN ARABIA FROM BLACK PARENTS.
May 15, 2009 at 6:39 am |
They are NOT Arabs by ethnicity. Their nationality is whatever Arab country they live in.You confuse the two.Also, many Blacks call themselves Arabs to avoid wide spred prejudice against Blacks and some are mixed and are entitled to classify themselves as Arabs if they so choose.
May 15, 2009 at 2:14 am |
WHY HAVE YOU NOT POSTED MY COMMENT I MADE ABOUT THE NEAR EAST YET. DON’T HIDE THE TRUTH. IF I AM WRONG PROVE ME WRONG. IF I AM RIGHT THEN ADMIT IT. I SEE YOU STILL HAVEN’T ACCEPTED THE FACT THAT KEMET IS THE ANCIENT WORD FOR EGYPT. AGAIN YOU ARE IN DENIAL WITH OUT FACTS.
May 15, 2009 at 6:35 am |
Part of the Middle East lies in Asia and part lies in Africa-No, Arabs are NOT Oriental Asians for the very same reason Arabs are NOT Black-no Asian haplo markers.Technically,some Arabs, depending on where they live, could be called White Africans or White Asians.
May 15, 2009 at 3:01 am |
NATURE COME ON;The following links indicate the Black and Arab Semitic White
mixes-these tribes by the way are in Sudan, part of North Africa(Arab Semitic White):
JAALIN/GAALIN & Boudin
Click to access Guhayna.pdf
BAKARA
http://www.pallme.com/family/uk_Ignaz_Pallme.htm
THE DAR HAMID
http://frontiers.org/northeastafrica SHOW ME THE WHITE ONES IN THESE TRIBES NATURE.
May 15, 2009 at 6:32 am |
You keep insisting the mixes and non mixed are Black-I am showing there are Arab Semitic Whites, there are Black/Arab Semitic White mixes, and there are Blacks in those tribes-you insist in clumping them altogether as Black. In you answer above, you finally admitted you are mixed/multiethnic. There is nothing wrong in being any ethnicity as long as YOU are that ethnicity, or, mixed/multiethnic. Just don’t attempt to claim someone else’s as your own, which is what you are attempting to do.I would be proud of whatever ethnicity, anthropologists wish to classify Arabs as. You realize by your own admission you have some Semitic White(unless by religion) Jew like the closely related Arabs-Arabs and Jews incidentally share up to 40 % of their genetic material-Middle Eastern, NOT European, Jews and Arabs are very hard to tell a part.
May 15, 2009 at 3:13 am |
NATURE YOU SAY-I am Arab American and do NOT have Black features so when you take to call Arabs Black, i do feel somewhat offended.Arabs are classified as Semitic WHITE. BY WHO? JUST LIKE THAT GUY HEFNY. HE WAS A BLACKMAN BUT BECAUSE HE WAS A EGYPTIAN THEY CLASSIFIED HIMS AS WHAT? WHITE. WHICH IS RIDICULOUS ON THE PART OF THOSE INCOMPETENT GROUPS. I THINKS ITS POLITICAL. I KNOW PEOPLE WHO LOOK WHITE WITH WHITE SKIN BUT HAVE BLACK IN THEM. CHILLI FROM TLC SHE SURE IS A PRETTY SISTER. BUT YOU KNOW WHAT WE CALL HER NATURE AND THE USA CALLS HER? BLACK
May 15, 2009 at 6:22 am |
Arabs are classified as White through anthropological measurements(mainly the skull) and DNA testing-check some physical anthropology books. This was not always true-the good old “one drop”rule of the Old South considered Arabs NON White and NON Black. In the early 1800s anthropologists started taking measurements of mainly skulls-nasal passages, dention, cheek gap,external occipital protuberance and classified Arabs as Semitic White versus Indo European Aryan White. Later tests such as bone density backed this-in unexercised Whites and Blacks, Blacks generally have a 10 % greater bone density than Whites of the same size and weight. Blacks also have a more pronounced inward curvature of the lower spine. Blacks generally have a greater fat deposit in the thighs and buttocks then Whites.The teeth of Blacks are often described as wide, scoop shoveled, and megadontic. These difference are easily observable.In half/half mixes-Black traits are dominant. Once the percentage drops below 25% most mixes can easily pass for Whites.James Watson, the DNA expert was very negative on Black intellectuall capabilities and on Black ethnicity as a whole-that is, until DNA testing determined he was 73% Indo European Aryan White, 16 % Black, and 9 % Asian-for all intents and purposes-he looks White:
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3022190.ece
Germans are Indo European Aryan White-Blacks have been born there to-they are Grerman BY NATIONALITY, NOT ethnicity. That is the situation with Mostafa Hefny. Egyptians are Arab Semitic White. He is Egyptian by Nationality, and Black by ethnicity.
May 15, 2009 at 3:33 am |
HERE YOU GO AGAIN NATURE; They are Black Nubians(highest concentration in Southern(Upper Egypt) THEY ARE BLACK PEOPLE FROM DIFFERENT PLACES NATURE NOT JUST NUBIA. THEY ARE BLACK TRIBES FROM ARABIA AS WELL. IF YOU READ THE REPORTS THEY TELL YOU THIS. YOU GOT THE BEJA, THE MASALITS, THE COPTS, THE NUBIANS, THE ETHIOPIANS AMHARA OROMO, THE GAALIEN, SO MANY MORE NATURE. SOME OF THEM ARE CALLED SUDANES ARABS. THEIR HISTORY GOES BACK TO ARABIA. SOME OF THEM MIGHT HAVE SOME WHITE ANCESTORS HOWEVER THEY ARE STILL BLACK. NOT ALL OF THEM NATURE. BLACKPEOPLE HAVE J1 AS WELL AND ITS NOT BECAUSE THEY HAVE WHITE IN THEM.
May 15, 2009 at 5:59 am |
J1 is the Arab Semitic White haplomarker, not Black-if persons have it, they are mixed. As I pointed out and provided links, those tribes are mixed.Calling Arabs, Black, is like saying oranges and apples are exactly the same type of fruit. Arabs are Sudanese by Nationality.The Sudanese are Black(I know it is part of Arab North Africa, but I will grant half the population is Black and it is really their land). Kemit is Nubia(technically speaking, part of annexed Nubia is the lower southwestern 1/4 of Egypt). Again, the MAJORITY of Egypt is Arab Semitic White(generally, Arabs have a golden brown skin color-similiar to Halle Berry’s skin tone(untanned)-she is half Black and half Indo European Aryan White. When Halle Berry wants to really look Black instead of mixed, she tans and wears a wig. Her nose gives her away. Beyonce Knowles is mixed/multiethnic-Black/White/Indian-she, to can emphasize whatever heritage she wishes.
The article states the Blacks are MOSLY Nubians,some NILOTICS: “Nilotic people or Nilotes, in its contemporary usage, refers to some ethnic groups mainly in southern Sudan, Uganda, Kenya, and northern Tanzania, who speak Nilotic languages, a large sub-group of the Nilo-Saharan languages. These include the Kalenjin, Luo, Ateker, Dinka, Nuer, Shilluk and the Maa-speaking peoples – all which are clusters of several ethnic groups.
The terms Nilotic and Nilote were previously used as racial classifications, based on now widely discarded perceptions. These terms are now foremost used to distinguish “Nilotic people” from their ethnic neighbours (mainly Bantu speaking people), based on ethnolinguistic affiliation. Etymologically, the terms Nilotic and Nilote (also spelled Nilot) derive from the Nile Valley, specifically the Upper Nile and its tributaries, where most Sudanese Nilo-Saharan-speaking people live.”: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic -Wikipedia
May 15, 2009 at 3:51 am |
NATURE I GUESS I AM 1/16TH WHITE JEW, 1/8 INDIAN(BLACKFOOT) 3/4 AFRICAN SOME % OF ASIAN. OH HELL NATURE IM A BLACKMAN. AND I AM NOT LIMITED TO A GEOGRAPHICAL LOCATION ON THE PLANET EARTH. THE WHOLE PLANET IS MY HOME. IM NOT KIDDING I REALLY HAVE THOSE ANCESTORS. BUT I AM BLACK BUT AMOUNGST CERTAIN TRIBES IN THE NILE VALLEY I WOULD PROBABLY BE CALLED WHITE. BECAUSE I AM BROWN SKIN AND NOT JET BLACK. AMOUNGST MY PEOPLE I AM CALLED THE WISDOM SEED MEANING BROWN BLACK SEED IS CALLED THE KNOWLEDGE SEED.
May 15, 2009 at 5:43 am |
You are mixed/multiethnic, NOT Black.I do NOT consider President Obama Black, NOR white, because he is MIXED/biethnic.
May 15, 2009 at 4:24 am |
El. Please, resend your Near East answer, I have approved all the comments I recieved from you. As I said in my answer about my mixed friends-THEY HAVE BLACK SKULL structure and features-imagine Bill Cosby with light skin, hair, and eyes and you would know he still has Black heritage. Take Michael Jackson and darken his skin-HE COULD pass as Arab because he had his Black feaures REMOVED through surgery-actually his nose woud need to be more pronounced. Ask the Black Sudanese if they are fighting Black people-I have Black Sudanese friends from Sudan and they feel offended when anyone thinks the way YOU do.(SEE my explanation on the Janjaweed). Why do you think Arabs are BLACK-evidence against this already presented-NO BLACK haplo markers(DNA), thin lips, staight to wavy dark hair, eyes, and golden brown skin, high forehead, lack of non medical prognathism,lack of megadonta, lack of broad blunt jaw and tooth structure.
You, yourself, agreed Jamie Farr, Arab American, does NOT look like in the same ethnic group as Bill Cosby-your excuse he was not born there, has NO bearring on this-he is NOT MIXED or has nevered mentioned anything other than his Arab ancestry-whether born in the US or the Middle East would not change his appearance. The others I listed above as mixed, you can tell their Black features are watered down LIKE PRESIDENT OBAMA-instead of Arab Semitic White, he is half Indo european Aryan White-yes, I know the rumor, Richard Cohen, Washington Post writer, attempted to spread on the internet and through the Washington Post article of his that President Obama was part Arab-that was disproven.Mostafa Hefny is Egyption BY NATIONALITY-Black Nubian by ethnicity-THIS IS WHERE YOU CONFUSE THE TWO-LIKE THE US IMMIGRATION OFFICIALS. NOW, instead of a long diatribe, present genetic evidence that pure Arabs have only Black markers(far from the truth). Pure Blacks have NO ARAB haplomarkers-the mixes DO(most of the tribes you presented and links I provided, showing they are mixed-Berbers, Moors, Hamites. As I stated, Sudan(part of Arab Semitic White North Africa) is 50% Arab, Ethiopia and Somalia is 1/3 Arab. Many of the miand, even many non mixed Blacks in these countries claim to be Arabs because of greater prejudice towards Blacks than Arabs.The following are links showing true Arabs(in one, General Colin Powell of Black, Irish, and Scotch heritage stands next to an Arab for comparison):
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_O5OuU90ru-Y/SgwzHGfPDgI/AAAAAAAADL0/VZbIjUvUz54/s1600-h/1_880848_1_34.jpg (in this picture, General Colin Powell is mixed and has Scotch and Irish ancestry-note his skin color compared to the Arab-also note-YOU can see he has Black heritage, not so in the Arab)
Your link above does not work.
May 16, 2009 at 1:54 pm |
Here is a true black arab for you nature:http://www.flickr.com/photos/miguelvf/1042452534/in/set-72157610861135769/
May 16, 2009 at 1:56 pm |
Here is a true black arab for you nature:http: that one didn’t work heres one.http://savethetruearabs.com/images/omani2.jpg
May 16, 2009 at 2:05 pm |
yes that link works type it in your address window.
May 16, 2009 at 5:23 pm |
Point 1. you can’t get something from nothing. Haplogroup A represents what is called Y adam-m91. dates back they say 60,000 years ago. Genetic diversity increases with age, so m91 provides a genetic link to the earliest common ancestor of ALL HUMANS, ‘Y-adam’. This haplogroup is REPRESENTATIVE of PEOPLES FROM SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA. Today many individuals carrying marker M91 live in ETHIOPIA, the SUDAN and SOUTHERN regions in AFRICA. This means that all humans present this day can be traced back to a group of people living in sub-saharan africa 60,000yrs ago. These people are black. And no matter how many genetic mutations occur to produce different variation or features they still originated from black people. quran 15 : 26 and surely We created man of sounding clay, of Black mud fashioned into shape. And since you keep running that cro magnon man stuff on us… What is the earliest date for cro magnon? 34,000 yrs ago?http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon I guess cromagnon man isn’t included in haplogroup A cause he wasn’t even on the earth yet. Blackmen and Blackwomen are indeed your ancestors (not golden brown man(yellow) except for the grafting process). So now that white people are on the scene you are only returning to you origin when you attempt to graft yourself back into black by mixing with us. It dosen’t make us lest black cause we have some white in us. Hell, if you weren’t in us to begin with, you could never come from us.
May 16, 2009 at 6:09 pm |
NATURE says again: J1 is the Arab Semitic White haplo marker, not Black-if they have it, they are mixed. OK NATURE lets apply you theory to the Haplogroup E subclades M-78 lets say this is a black haplo marker. Morroco arabs 40% no j1 because its the y father to son. libyan arabs 20%, northern egyptians (delta) 23.61%, egyptians from baharia 41.46%, egyptians from gurma Oasis 17.65%, southern egytians 50.63%, mixed ethiopians 33.33%, borano/oromo (kenya/ethiopia) 40.63%, Somali 52,17%, ethiopian jews(semitic speakers) 9.09%, Amhara 8.82%, Nilotic from Kenya 11.11%,.(source tracing past human male movements in norther/eastern africa and western eurasia…) It appear by the precentages of E-m78 in kemet/egypt alone this haplogroup subclade far out numbers j1. This must mean that these people either are black or are mixed with black in them. So to concluded blackpeople in egypt would still out number you small group of j1 white semitic arabs. Like i said kemet/egypt would still be a predominatly black country.
May 16, 2009 at 6:18 pm |
El, the link gives me a bunch of gibberish about servers, the man you call a “Black Arab”(NOT true)-again you confuse ethnicity with nationality-he is a Black man living in Arab Oman(not even in Africa), but in the Arab Middle East-the following links actually show you the ethnicities there, Arabs(Semitic Whites) being the largest group):
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0107856.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oman
Though not labeled any ethnicities, two forms of Homo sapeins, both extinct, existed at the same time in Africa-Cro Magnon( Caucasoid features and Idaltu(Negroid features)-your implication is all ethnicities are descended from Black peoples-when in fact, all etnicities have a common ancestor, generally considered Homo habilus-new evidencec indicates possibly Homo erecus existed at the same time, as a separate line instead of derived from Homo habilis. Neither one was assigned an ethnicity.
Again, your information you claim as fact, is indeed, NOT fact.
You seem intent up on insisting Arabs and Blacks are the same ethnicity by twisting facts, Again, get yourself a Physical Anthropology book and read up.
May 16, 2009 at 6:42 pm |
Now about Arabian blacks from (y-chromosome diversity characterizes the gulf of oman) .It says “The presence of signature sub-saharan african mtDNA lineages in the south arabian populations has been attributed to various waves of gene flow to the region including that associated with the east african slave trade. This is apparent from the exact mtDNA haplotype matches between lineages in Yemen and East Africa, including those associated with bantu expansion. The presence of the E3a-m2 lineage in Oman(7.4%), Yemen (3.2%), UAE (5.5%), and Qatar(2.8%) could lead to the oversimplified conclusion that these chromosoems are also a contribution from the east african slave trade. Mitochondrial DNA analysis of the Yemen Hadramawt indicates recent gene flow(2500ybp) from africa to the arab populations in part through the slave trade, YET AN ANCIENT ARRIVAL FROM EAST AFRICA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE Y-CHROMOSOME HAPLOTYPES. THE CONTRAST BETWEEN FEMALE VERSUS MALE MEDIATED GENE FLOW BETWEEN THESE TWO AREAS CAN BE ATTRIBUTED TO THE ASSIMILATION OF FEMALES WITHIN THE ARABIAN POPULATIONS, WHEREAS THE MALES WERE OFTEN EXCLUDED FROM REPRODUCTIVE OPPORTUNITIES). So they say that an ancient arrival of the y chromosome from east africa to arabia is responsible for these haplotypes being there. So my question to you is who were these black men in the ancient times that carried they y chromosome into arabia? And what happen to there descendants? My answere is that they are still there. Which is what i have been telling you and what they at savethetruearabs have been telling us. Heres a true black arab;http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/images/omani2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/&usg=__0rc-FzfAqDYhDdaIgJDYGj5DhVA=&h=240&w=172&sz=25&hl=en&start=47&tbnid=5y08jG-NfvjL1M:&tbnh=110&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bomani%2Barabs%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40%26um%3D1&um=1 and heres another;http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/images/omani2.jpg&imgrefurl=http://savethetruearabs.com/&usg=__0rc-FzfAqDYhDdaIgJDYGj5DhVA=&h=240&w=172&sz=25&hl=en&start=47&tbnid=5y08jG-NfvjL1M:&tbnh=110&tbnw=79&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpictures%2Bof%2Bthe%2Bomani%2Barabs%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DN%26start%3D40%26um%3D1&um=1
May 16, 2009 at 6:43 pm |
my links don’t appear to be working on your blog today. I wonder why.
May 16, 2009 at 6:51 pm |
Heres a article i found by a egyptian who doesn’t consider himself a arab. Why is it that many Egyptians now are forgetting our great history and are simply identifying themselves as Arabs? Identifying ourselves as Arabs means we refute all our Egyptian history, yes we speak a dialect of Arabic called EGYPTIAN and we have many Arabic customs but I must say WE ARE NOT ARABS, we are EGYPTIANS, why would we want to be ARABS I don’t understand, Egyptians that go and work in Arab countries are treated like garbage, and insulted and degraded, our minister went to Palestine in 2004 and what did they do to him, they threw shoes at him! This man was there to negotiate peace for them, but of course simply because he was protected by the Israelis they assume he is a traitor and insult him and by insulting him they insult ALL OF EGYPT! What about our Ambassador in Iraq who was slaughtered, now that is a MARTYR not the idiots who blow themselves up, This man was in Iraq promoting stability and they slaughter him, why did I not see a college demonstration against that?
why would we want to be ARABS I don’t understand, Egyptians that go and work in Arab countries are treated like garbage, and insulted and degraded, our minister went to Palestine in 2004 and what did they do to him, they threw shoes at him! This man was there to negotiate peace for them, but of course simply because he was protected by the Israelis they assume he is a traitor and insult him and by insulting him they insult ALL OF EGYPT! What about our Ambassador in Iraq who was slaughtered, now that is a MARTYR not the idiots who blow themselves up, This man was in Iraq promoting stability and they slaughter him, why did I not see a college demonstration against that? I’m simply disgusted at the way the Arabs treat Egyptians and I’m more disgusted at the way some Egyptians will say , Arabs are our brothers, we must stand with them, as those same Arabs are spitting at us! I dare any of those Egyptians who hate the USA to go live in the USA for a year and to go live in Saudi Arabia or Kuwait for a year…and then compare, tell me where were you treated equally and nicely and where were you treated like garbage and as a second class citizen. In the USA an Egyptian will be treated like any other person but of course this is not the scenario in most Arab countries! Why do some Egyptians fail to understand this? We are EGYPTIANS we are not ARABS…If you really want to talk about our heritage then talk about the Copts, or even the Jews, not the Arabs! The Arabs back then were all worshipping idols, so I would rather say my great grand fathers were Christians or Jews who believed in Allah just like me and then they eventually converted to Islam! This is our true legacy, not the Arab legacy that Gamal Abd Elnasser imposed on us, and fooled us all with…and all the fake history books in our education systems that want to make us Hate the true founders of Modern Egypt (the Mohamed Ali Family) The beautiful cosmopolitan Egypt we all Wish we could have a taste of, The Egypt before the so called Revolution of “52” By the way that day should be called the BLACK DAY OF EGYPT not the revolution day!! http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7T_bii75j4U/RbULcmedzHI/AAAAAAAAAAk/aBbMlcFfeXs/s320/
May 16, 2009 at 7:20 pm |
try this link. The other didn’t work http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_7T_bii75j4U/RbULcmedzHI/AAAAAAAAAAk/aBbMlcFfeXs/s320/Elsadat.gif&imgrefurl=http://modernpharaoh.blogspot.com/&usg=__tfl5Zvn8Laj_Z_QFOFiOK56rSDg=&h=320&w=244&sz=160&hl=en&start=10&tbnid=KcQ0Ony4r3PPNM:&tbnh=118&tbnw=90&prev=/images%3Fq%3Danwar%2Bsadat%2527s%2Bparents%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dsafari%26rls%3Den%26sa%3DG%26um%3D1&um=1
May 16, 2009 at 7:31 pm |
Here’s the correct link for the true black arabs: http://www.flickr.com/photos/13088565@N07/2269685128/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/mrmagic/2189500003/
May 16, 2009 at 7:40 pm |
El, if you are implying I am controling the links-I have done nothing of the sort. Do you even understand the evidence yo have presented? In Layman terms, yes there would be a higher proportion of Black heritage there-two reasons, both alluded to in the article, my answers, and, YOUR very own facts-1) the southwest 1/4 of Egypt was Black Nubia/ Sudan/ Kemit annexed in 1521 B.C.. 2) Egypt is in SUPRA(upper), NOT SUB Sahara-all facts(YOURS included) point to a migration of of Sub Sahara Blacks up north into North Sudan (Arab half) and Egypt. Sudan’s southern half is in Sub Sahara. Sudan is part of North Africa(Arab Semitic White). YOUR facts support this.The article states most Blacks in Egypt are from Nubia. Some are Nilotics:
“Nilotic people constitute a large part of the population of Southern Sudan. The largest of the Sudanese Nilotic people are the Dinka, which includes as many as twenty-five ethnic groups. The next largest group are the Nuer, followed by the Shilluk.
The Nilotic people in Uganda include the Luo group (Acholi, Alur and Jopadhola), the Ateker (Iteso and Karamojong), and the Lango and Kumam.
In Kenya, the Nilotes are often categorised into three subgroups:
The Plain Nilotes, who speak Maa languages: the Maasai, Samburu and Turkana
The River lake Nilotes: the Joluo (Kenyan Luo), who are part of the larger Luo group
The Highland Nilotic or Kalenjin, which includes several smaller groups: Elgeyo, Keiyo, Kipsigis, Marakwet, Nandi, Pokot, Sabaot, Terik, and Tugen” -Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nilotic
You have yet to explain why you consider Arab Semitic Whites as Black, when, genetically they are separate ethnicities, different foods, different culture, against my facts, against YOUR own facts, against different features-you also deny admixtures-you yourself, admit some Semitic heritage(Jewish-Jews and Arabs are BOTH Semitic White-Jews can be by religion, and, can be non White-i.e.-the late Sammy Davis Jr,and the late Nell Carter-Black American, Jewish by religion,Arabs and Jews having up to 40 % of their genetic material in common. DNA has become accurate enough to separate out ethnicities. NOW PLEASE, EXPLAIN YOUR REASONING SINCE YOUR OWN FACTS DO NOT SUPORT YOUR CLAIMS.
May 16, 2009 at 7:50 pm |
El, many Egyptians are so by Nationality, NOT etnicity-the Mostafa Hefny example I gave earlier. The Black Nubians still consider themselves separate from the Arab Semitic Whites, comprising the MAJORITY population-where do most Balck Nubians live-southern Egypt where, your evidence shows, has the highest amount of Black heritage getting less further north until you pass midway and North Egypt has Arab Semitic White genetic material. My article thoroughly demonstrates these facts. In a layperson’s terms out of Africa migration demonstrating different ethnicities, bacflow from the Middle East(Arab Semitic White, than backflow from the Sub Sahara.If you think Arabs are Black, by your same reasoning, everyone is Black-you seem more intelligent then that.
May 17, 2009 at 4:53 am |
El, here are some links showing Arab Semitic Whites, Blacks, and Arab Semitic White/Black mixes. In Yemen, there are a high number of Blacks in the Arab population because of the Black Ethiopian armies that invaded Yemen at one time and then were driven off. Please, note, I deplore the Arabs of Sudan slaughtering the Black Sudanese.I will not tolerate monsters of ANY ethnicity:
http://www.joshuaproject.net/countries.php?rog3=YM
http://www.sudanesethinker.com/2007/02/03/sudan-arab-or-african/
http://www.helga.com/collections/yemen/8.html
http://www.helga.com/collections/yemen/5.html
http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/article.aspx?d=Asia&x=BlackWestAsians
http://www.globalpolitician.com/2851-palestinians
http://www.raceandhistory.com/historicalviews/09122001.htm
Click to access Stop_the_Genocide_in_Darfur.pdf
May 19, 2009 at 6:01 pm |
NATURE SAID; Do you even understand the evidence yo have presented? In Layman terms, yes there would be a higher proportion of Black heritage there-two reasons, both alluded to in the article, OF COURSE THATS WHY I PRESENTED IT. NATURE CONTINUES;the southwest 1/4 of Egypt was Black Nubia/ Sudan/ Kemit annexed in 1521 B.C.. 2) Egypt is in SUPRA(upper), NOT SUB Sahara-all facts(YOURS included) point to a migration of of Sub Sahara Blacks up north into Noth Sudan (Arab half) and Egypt NO 3/4 OF KEMET/EGYPT WAS BLACK EGYPTIAN It has been pointed out that up to the time of menes vicotry over them, the asians were rather firmly held behind a border line along the 29th parallel. Few were allowed in the all black regions of Upper Egypt(source Destruction of black civilization. Chancellor Williams) Again you are in error about the term kemet which you keep erroneously using to refer to nubia. However might i remind you that sudan and ethiopia are all below the sahara, so they would be included in the term sub sahara. Northeast africa is where the migrations from south to north occurred. However it didn’t stop there, they went all the way thru the levantine corridor into the near east. YOU SAY; Sudan’s southern half is in Sub Sahara. Sudan is part of North Africa(Arab Semitic White). YOUR facts support this.The article states most Blacks in in Egypt are from Nubia. Some are Nilotics: I SAY: Sudans populations is made up of different black tribes some from arabia. However i’ll let the president of sudan tell you in his own word’s A few years ago, in a report by Reuters (copied here below) Sudan’s President Omar Al-Bashir was quoted as saying:
“Talk of Arabs killing blacks is a lie. The government of Sudan is a government of blacks, with all different ethnic backgrounds … We’re all Africans, we’re all black.” “http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com/2009/02/sudans-bashir-talk-of-arabs-killing.html In other words nature sudan is a black country. Egypt is primarily a black country still even if the culture is predominatly islamic or arabic. If there is any white skin people present there, they must be in a small percentage. You can call us mixed if you want. But our black skins tell us that we are part of the black family. And my mother and my father are both black neither of them are mulatto. Nature the traditions of the ethiopians tell of the colonizing of this land kemet (later called egypt) by osiris and a colony of ethiopians long before there was a first dynasty. The people were a black race that is called by some historian the Anu otherwise know as the old race..Thats why i will continue to tell you that if there was any white arab semitic in kemet at this early period they were in migratory fashion. In later days they may have come paying tribute and dealing in trade. Not as you say 5000 yrs ago as conquerors.
May 19, 2009 at 6:06 pm |
http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com/2009/02/sudans-bashir-talk-of-arabs-killing.html
May 19, 2009 at 11:33 pm |
NATURE ASKED THIS QUESTION:You have yet to explain why you consider Arab Semitic Whites as Black when genetically they are separate ethnicities, NOW NATURE I NEVER SAID WHITE SKIN ARABS ARE BLACK. I SAID THERE ARE BLACK ARABS AND THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE OF ARABIA ARE BLACK PEOPLE. HOWEVER THERE ARE LIGHT SKIN(NOT WHITE) ARABS THAT HAVE BLACK IN THEM. SUCH AS THE SULTAN OF OMAN. AND PRINCE BANDIR OF SAUDI ARABIA. AS FAR AS FOR WHITE SKINNED ARABS WELL THEY MAY JUST BE ARABIZED WHITES. NATURE ALSO SAID;In Yemen, there are a high number of Blacks in the Arab population because of the Black Ethiopian armies that invaded Yemen at one time and then were driven off. NOW NATURE YOU NEED TO STOP THAT. EITHER YOU ARE IGNORANT TO HISTORICAL AND ARCHEALOGICAL FACTS OR YOUR TRYING TO TEST MY INTELLGENCE. EAST AFRICA OCCUPIES A CENTRAL POSITION IN THE EMERGENCY OF HOMINID SPECIES, SINCE IT IS THE LOCATION OF THE EARLIEST FOSSIL EVIDENCE FOR ANATOMICALLY MODERN HUMANS, DATING BACK 150,000-160,000 YEARS. (CLARK ET AL. 2003: WHITE ET AL. 2003) OBSIDIAN TRADING LINKS BETWEEN COASTAL EAST AFRICA AND ARABIA CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE 7TH MILLENNIUM B.C. ALSO THE ARABIAN PENINSUAL IS A REGION THROUGH WHICH NUMEROUS MIGRATIONS BETWEEN AFRICA AND ARABIA HAVE OCCURRED. ANTHROPOLOGICAL AND ARCHAEOLOGICAL AND GENETIC EVIDENCE HAS GIVEN SUPPORT TO THE HYPOTHESIS THAT MODERN HUMANS MAY HAVE DISPERSED OUT OF AFRICA, FOLLOWING A SOUTHERN ROUTE THROUGH THE ARABIAN PENINSULA BEFORE THEY PURSUED A LEVANTINE ROUTE. THE ARABIAN PENINSULA MAY HAVE BEEN THE FIRST STEP IN THE COLONIZATION OF SOUTHERN AND EASTERN ASIA. MIDDLE PALAEOLITHIC ARTEFACTS DISCOVERED IN THE SOUTHWESTERN AREAS OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA ARE SIMILAR TO ONES RECOVERED IN AFRICA, PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR THE SUGGESTION THAT THE RED SEA COASTS MAY HAVE BEEN IMPORTANT IN THIS SOUTHERN EXPANSION. THE PRESENCE OF OBSIDIAN LITHICS ON THE AFRICAN AND ARABIAN SIDES OF THE RED SEA ATTEST TO NEOLITHIC CONTACTS AS WELL. ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE SUPPORTS LATE NEOLITHIC LEVANTINE COLONIZATION OFTHE ARABIAN PENINSULA WITH SUCCESSIVE POPULATION EXPANSTIONS AND CONTRACTIONS DEPENDING ON CLIMATIC CONDITIONS.(source eurasiona and african mitochondrial DNA influences in the saudi arabian population 2007). THIS TELLS US THAT PEOPLE HAVE BEEN MIGRATION BACK AND FORTH BETWEEN AFRICA AND ARABIA DURING THE MESOLITHIC PERIOD 20-18,000 BC TO 12,150 BC.wikipedia NOW SINCE J1 HAPLOGROUP WASN’T ON THE SCENE UNTIL 10,000KYA, WHO WERE THESE PEOPLE IN ARABIA? ACCORDING TO HISTORIANS IT WAS THE ANCIENT KUSHITE ETIOPIANS WHO FIRST MIGRATED INTO ARABIAN AND SETTLE THERE. THE ETHIOPIANS WERE BLACKPEOPLE CARRING DIFFERENT HAPLOGROUP DNA. ARABIA WAS ONE OF THE EARLIEST COLONIES OF THE KUSHITE ETHIOPIANS . IN AGES OLDER THEN EGYPT AND CHALDEA ARABIA WAS THE SEAT OF A ENLIGHTENED AND ENTERPISING CIVILIZATION THAT SPREAD INTO NEIGHBORING COUNTRIES. NOW THESE ARE THE Y CHROMOSOME CARRIERS THAT ENTER ARABIA FROM EAST AFRICA IN THE ANCIENT TIMES. IN CONTRAST TO J1 AS ACCORDING TO THE SAME REPORT..MEDIAN BATWING EXPANSION TIMES BASED ON 7-STR DATA FOR THE OMANI…J1-M267 CHROMOSOMES INDICATE A MORE RECENT ARRIVAL TO THE SOUTH ARABIAN POPULATIONS AS COMPARED TO THE OLDER EXPANSION TIMES OBTAINED FOR THE EGYPTIAN AND TURKISH REPRESENTATIVES OF THIS HAPLOGROUP. CONVERSELY, IN THE PRESENT STUDY, Y-STR AGE ESTIMATES BASED ON THE METHOD DESCRIBED BY ZHIVOTOVSKY ET AL GENERATED MUCH OLDER VALUES FOR THE J1-M267 HAPLOGROUP IN YEMEN, QATAR AND UAE(9.7 GIVE OR TAKE 2.4, 7.4-2.3 AND 6.4 1.4 KY, RESPECTIVELY) THAN SEEN IN THE OMANI, CONSISTENT WITH AN EARLIER ARRIVAL TO THE REGION DURING THE NEOLITHIC. THE DATA SUGGEST EXPANSION FROM THE NORTH DURING THE NEOLITHIC (OR PERHAPS MORE RECENTLY), WHICH IS ALSO REFLECTED IN THE LOWER STR VARIANCES IN SOUTHERN ARABIA…SUBSEQUENTLY, A SERIES OF RECENT DEMOGRAPHIC EVENTS MAY ACCOUNT FOR THE HIGH HAPLOGROUP FREQUENCY OF J1-M267 IN THE POPULATIONS FROM THE PRESENT STUDY. NOW SINCE J1 IS A SEMITIC SPEAKING HAPLOGROUP AS YOU PUT IT WHITE SEMITIC ARABS, IT IS FAIR ENOUGH TO SAY THEY WERE NOT PRESENT IN ARABIA BEFORE THE BLACK ETHIOPIANS SO THEREFORE THEY COULD NOT BE THE FIRST PEOPLE TO INHABIT ARABIA NOR THE FIRST ARABIANS. THIS IS WHY I SAY THAT THE FIRST ARABIANS WERE BLACK PEOPLE. KUSHITE ETHIOPIANS OF THE ANCIENT CUSHITE EMPIRE. AND YOUR SEMITIC WHITE ARAB GROUP WERE THE JOHNNY COME LATELYS COMPARED TO THE ANCIENT ETHIOPIAN KUSHITE ARABIANS. AND SINCE YOUR SUCH A GOOD CHRISTIAN WHAT DOES YOUR BIBLE SAY. GENESIS 10 CH VERSES 6-7 AND THE SONS OF HAM: CUSH, AND MIZRAIM, AND PHUT, AND CANAAN. AND THE SONS OF CUSH: SEBA, AND HAVILAH, AND SABTAH, AND RAAMAH: SHEBA, AND DEDAN. IF YOU DON’T KNOW NATURE CUSH (ALSO NUBIA AND ETHIOPIA IN EAST AFRICA), SEBA, HAVILAH, SABTAH, RAAMAH, SHEBA AND DEDAN ARE ALL LOCATED IN ARABIA. THE PEOPLE OF CUSH WERE BLACK PEOPLE AS THEY STILL ARE TODAY. AND SINCE YOU ALWAYS LIKE TO EQUATE THE TERM SEMITIC WITH WHITE. WHY DON’T YOU LOOK UP THE DEFINITION OF SEMITIC IN THE WIKIPEDIA SINCE YOU HAVE THAT YOUR FAVORITE SOURCE FOR INFOMATION.
May 19, 2009 at 11:40 pm |
EL, YOU HAVE TAKEN THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT.View the Links below and see what Al-Bashir REALLY said(he even says Sudan is a government of all different ethnicities(can not be Black AND a different ethnicity-all can be Africans(White, Black, or any other ethnicity)).-He is Black not Arab Semitic White and the Ancient and Modern Egyptians are Arab Semitic White-both your proof and mine verify this:
http://www.ordoesitexplode.com/me/2007/04/omar_albashir_n.html
http://www.iabolish.org/slavery_today/country_reports/sd.html
http://platform.blogs.com/passionofthepresent/2007/02/sudanese_presid.html
Speaking to a largely African-American audience, Al-Bashir also addressed the issue of race in his country. Some have said that Arabs with light skin are oppressing Africans in Sudan.
But the leader said “this is nothing but a lie,” because in Sudan, “we’re all Africans and we’re all black.”
Akbar Muhammad, a Nation of Islam leader who moderated the program, pointed to al-Bashir on the screen and said that: “He’s darker [than] me.”
Leonard Muhammad, another Nation leader, said that African-Americans should be aware of what happens in Sudan and other African countries.
“Don’t … suggest this is beyond the business of the Nation of Islam,” he said.
From Reuters…
Sudan’s President Omar al-Bashir defended his handling of the Darfur crisis and criticised Western media for exaggerating the death toll in a video conference with worshippers at a Detroit mosque [sic] on Friday.
Bashir acknowledged [that] Sudan was facing a “problem” in Darfur, but placed the blame squarely on rebel groups which did not sign on to a peace agreement concluded in Abuja, Nigeria, in May 2006. “There is a problem, and the main cause of that problem is the rebellion … we’ve done everything to possible to try to convince those who bore arms against the state and the people … but all efforts and mediation failed,” he said.
Experts say [that] an estimated 200,000 people have been killed and 2.5 million [have been] driven from their homes in Darfur since 2003.
“There’s a discourse in Western media about the number of people killed in these events, and a lot of organisations and the American media refer to imaginary numbers, up to 400,000 dead. All these are false,” Bashir said, later adding that the actual number was closer to 9,000 dead.
He dismissed claims of ethnic cleansing in Darfur. “Talk of Arabs killing blacks is a lie. The government of Sudan is a government of blacks, with all different ethnic backgrounds … We’re all Africans, we’re all black.”
May 20, 2009 at 4:21 am |
El, I am not sure why your last comment did not appear here yet, but in response to your insistence the Arabs of Yemen are Black people, enlighten yourself on the Ethiopian invasion that you appear unaware of:
http://www.colorq.org/MeltingPot/article.aspx?d=Asia&x=BlackWestAsians
http://mypetjawa.mu.nu/archives/193378.php
http://www.ordoesitexplode.com/me/2005/11/minority_report.html
http://www.frontpagemag.com/readArticle.aspx?ARTID=8897
May 20, 2009 at 4:54 am |
El, I didi look up Semite in Wikipedia as you requested-Black people is NO where to be found, in fact mentioning Ethiopian Semites :
The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern people originating in southwestern Asia, including Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Arabs, and Ethiopian Semites.-Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic
May 21, 2009 at 5:28 pm |
NATURES SAYS :AL, YOU HAVE TAKEN THINGS OUT OF CONTEXT.View the Links below and see what Al-Bashir REALLY said(he even says Sudan is a government of all different ethnicities(can not be Black AND a different ethnicity-all can be Africans(White, Black, or any other ethnicity)).-He is Black not Arab Semitic White and the Ancient and Modern Egyptians are Arab Semitic White-both your proof and mine verify this: BY YOU ACCUSING ME OF TAKING SOMETHING OUT OF CONTEXT NATURE WITH NOT PREVAIL AS YOUR DEFENSE FOR THIS DEBATE. NATURE. Ethinic according to the dictionary i have says of, having to do with, or belonging to a specific group of mankind, whose memebers share the smae culture, lanquage, or customs. SUDAN IS NOT MADE UP OF BLACK PEOPLE THAT ARE HOMOGENEOUS WHEN IT COMES TO CULTURES SOME ARE CHRISTIAN OTHER MUSLIMS, LANGUAGE SOME SPEAK ARABIC OTHER SPEAK MASALIT, CUSTOMS SOME READ THE BIBLE OTHER THE QURAN. SOME ARE ARAB TRIBES OTHER ARE AFRICAN TRIBES. SO IN THIS CONTEXT THEY ARE MADE UP OF DIFFERENT ETHINIC GROUPS. THEY ARE ONLY HETEROGENEOUS WHEN IT COMES TO THE BLACKNESS. THEY ARE BLACK PEOPLE PERIOD. Which is what Bahsir was waying when he said”Speaking to a largely African-American audience, Al-Bashir also addressed the issue of race in his country. Some have said that Arabs with light skin are oppressing Africans in Sudan.
But the leader said “this is nothing but a lie,” because in Sudan, “we’re all Africans and we’re all black.”
I LOOK UP YOUR SO-CALLED NORTHERN ARAB SUDAN POPULATION AND ALL I GOT WAS BLACK PEOPLE:http://farm1.static.flickr.com/23/31666113_1e9dda73d0.jpg FROM THIS ARTICLE: http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://photos23.flickr.com/31666113_1e9dda73d0.jpg&imgrefurl=http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com/2005/08/evacuation-of-arabs-from-southern.html&usg=__w0T29uPUTaCPJZeilMIjBS34ZQU=&h=278&w=380&sz=30&hl=en&start=1&tbnid=OpJmlArl7py5fM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Darabs%2Bof%2Bnorthern%2Bsudan%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DG NOW WHERE IS YOUR NORTHERN WHITE ARABS ENSLAVING THE SOUTHERN BLACKS?
May 21, 2009 at 10:27 pm |
You imply that Bashir, a Black man himself, is some sort of expert on ethnicities-many mixed Black/Arabs claim their Arab(Semitic White) heritage over their Black heritage BECAUSE OF WIDE SPREAD UNIVERSAL PREJUDICE BY ALL ETHNICITIES AGAINST BLACKS, MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER ETHNICITY. Arabs enslaving Blacks goes on to today.
May 21, 2009 at 8:03 pm |
NATURE YOU SAID;El, I am not sure why your last comment did not appear here yet, but in response to your insistence the Arabs of Yemen are Black people, enlighten yourself on the Ethiopian invasion that you appear unaware of:
IT WENT THRU NATURE. As for the Ethiopian invasion are you refering to the third century one or the 6th century war between askumite ethiopia and the himyarites kingdom? Either way what you have here is blacks in ethiopia against blacks in arabia vying for power in these lands. HOWEVER NATURE THE POINT IS THERE WERE BLACK PEOPLE OCCUPYING THE ARABIAN PENINSULA IN THE MESOLITHIC PERIOD PRIOR TO J1S APPEARANCE ON THE PLANET. EVEN 10,000 YRS AGO THERE WERE TRADING GOING ON BETWEEN THE BLACK PEOPLE OF ARABIA AND THE BLACK PEOPLE OF AFRICA KNOWN AS THE OBSIDIAN TRADING LINKS DATING TO 7000 B.C. THAT WAS 9000 YRS AGO. J1’S MOST RECENT COMMON ANCESTOR WAS PROBABLY JUST MAKING AN APPEARANCE THEN. BUT WASN’T ANY WHERE NEAR BAB EL MENDEL YET. SO THEY COULD’NT POSSIBLY BE THE ORIGINAL OCCUPANTS OF ARABIA. AS I SAID BEFORE IT WAS THE ANCIENT BLACK CUSHITES ETHIOPIAN ARABIANS WHO ARE THE FIRST. THUS MAKING THEM THE ORIGINAL ARABIANS OR ARABS. What you have attempted to do is to attribute the ancient black peoples presence in arabia with a more recent slave trading event. However the facts that i have presented to you proves beyond a shadow of a dout that was not the case.
May 21, 2009 at 10:47 pm |
I could find no concrete archeological records of Blacks being in Yemen BEFORE the Arabs(whom you insist are Black), but plenty to indicate after the Arabs whom enslaved many Blacks.Please, present some DNA evidence, archeological evidence, ancient written records anything other than SOME self-proclaimed Afrocentrist saying so.
May 21, 2009 at 8:17 pm |
El, I can not figure you out-your own evidence shows genetically, Arab Semitic Whites and Blacks are two different ethnicities, yet you insist Blacks are Arabs(incorrect) and that the lighter skinned Arabs are a mix-again incorrect. You agreed Arab American Jamie Farr(you acted as if being an American changed that both his parents are Arabs from the Middle East and this no longer made him represent an Arab) is NOT in the same ethnic heritage as Black American Bill Cosby(for some reason, you did not use the same reasoning because he was born in America, he was not Black-strange).You keep showing pictures of Blacks claiming they are Arabs-they are not, but nationality, they can be called what ever Arab country they are a citizen in.For instance, if they live in Egypt(Arab Semitic White), they can be called Black Egyptians NOT Black Arabs. If Arabs live in Africa, they can be called White Africans, NOT Black.Bashire is Black, but seems to loathe being identified as such.The following links will clearify your thinking:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/1071/
The following is an excellent discussion why you are wrong:
http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com/2009/02/sudans-bashir-talk-of-arabs-killing.html
Arab Semitic Whites Enslaving black Sudanese:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6455365.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Sudan
http://southsudanfriends.org/slavery2.html
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/AllDocsByUNID/31843f101e50cb43c1256a16005aae34
http://www.trinicenter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1154
May 21, 2009 at 8:17 pm |
NATURE RESPONDED;El, I didi look up Semite in Wikipedia as you requested-Black people is NO where to be found, in fact mentioning Ethiopian Semites :
The term Semite means a member of any of various ancient and modern people originating in southwestern Asia, including Akkadians, Canaanites, Phoenicians, Hebrews, Arabs, and Ethiopian Semites.-Wikipedia:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semitic NOW NATURE YOU ARE TRYING TO REVERSE MY POINT ON ME. THATS WHAT I WAS SAYING TO YOU WHEN YOU USED THE TERM SEMITIC TO EQUATE WITH THE WORD WHITE AS YOU DID WITH THE WORD ARAB. SEMITIC NOR ARAB, MEANS WHITE EITHER. YOU CAN’T FIND THAT IN WIKIPEDIA DEFINITION. NOW EVEN THOUGH YOU HAVE COME THRU THE BACK DOOR AT IT, YOU ARE FINALLY GETTING MY POINT ABOUT THOSE TERMS. SO THE TERM SEMITE COULD APPLY TO BLACK, WHITE OR MIXED PEOPLE.
May 21, 2009 at 10:49 pm |
Another link explaning why you might confuse Arab Semitic White with Black:
http://www.raceandhistory.com/selfnews/viewnews.cgi?newsid1039435838,54278,.shtml
Sem·ite (smt)
n.
1. A member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Near East and northern Africa, including the Arabs, Arameans, Babylonians, Carthaginians, Ethiopians, Hebrews, and Phoenicians.
2. A Jew.
3. Bible A descendant of Shem.
——————————————————————————–
[Back-formation from Semitic.]
The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition copyright ©2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Updated in 2003. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
——————————————————————————–
Semite
Noun
a member of the group of peoples who speak a Semitic language, such as the Jews and Arabs [New Latin semita descendant of Shem, eldest of Noah’s sons]
Collins Essential English Dictionary 2nd Edition 2006 © HarperCollins Publishers 2004, 2006
ThesaurusLegend: Synonyms Related Words Antonyms
Noun 1. Semite – a member of a group of Semitic-speaking peoples of the Middle East and northern Africa
Caucasian, White, White person – a member of the Caucasoid race
Babylonian – an inhabitant of ancient Babylon
Chaldaean, Chaldean, Chaldee – an inhabitant of ancient Chaldea
Assyrian – an inhabitant of ancient Assyria
Phoenician – a member of an ancient Semitic people who dominated trade in the first millennium B.C.
Arab, Arabian – a member of a Semitic people originally from the Arabian peninsula and surrounding territories who speaks Arabic and who inhabits much of the Middle East and northern Africa
Aramaean, Aramean – a member of one of a group of Semitic peoples inhabiting Aram and parts of Mesopotamia from the 11th to the 8th century BC
Canaanite – a member of an ancient Semitic people who occupied Canaan before it was conquered by the Israelites
Adj. 1. Semite – of or relating to or characteristic of Semites; “Semite peoples”
Semitic
: http://www.thefreedictionary.com/Semite
May 21, 2009 at 8:25 pm |
AND SINCE YOU ALWAYS SPEAK TO ME ABOUT THE JANJAWEED. CHECK WHAT ETHNICITY THIS ARTICLE CLAIMS THEM AS.http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://c2.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images02/27/l_b2ff1c51de1e4b708a6f1b023466ec6d.jpg&imgrefurl=https://naturescorner.wordpress.com/2008/12/13/where-the-ancient-egyptians-black-or-white/&h=257&w=381&sz=28&tbnid=UAQI0F90P-Q5RM::&tbnh=83&tbnw=123&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dwere%2Bthe%2Begyptians%2Bblack%2Bor%2Bwhite%2Bpictures&hl=en&usg=__I-HHyS2TNRTlQJkDM_wjDlUZWcs=&ei=AxbySZq_Ooa0Nf6HtbEP&sa=X&oi=image_result&resnum=4&ct=image
May 21, 2009 at 10:51 pm |
Link doesn’t work-at any rate, most of the Janjaweed are Black Sudanese, not Arabs, although many erroneously call them Black Arabs, as I explaned earlier.
May 21, 2009 at 8:27 pm |
PARDON THIS SHOULD DO IT.http://slate.msn.com/id/2104210
May 21, 2009 at 11:00 pm |
Now this link does work-the author alludes to the misleading terms of Arabs and non Arabs, also alluding to using these terms anyway.The Zaghawa, Masalit, and Fur tribes tribes are all BLACK Sudanese(NOT ARAB) tribes whom give the Janjaweed(mostly Black Sudanese traitors) their strenghth in numbers.
May 21, 2009 at 8:28 pm |
http://slate.msn.com/id/2104210 i still haven’t mastered posting these links yet.
May 21, 2009 at 11:02 pm |
Already answered this one.
May 22, 2009 at 2:45 am |
NATURE RESPONDS:You imply that Bashir, a Black man himself, is some sort of expert on ethnicities-many mixed Black/Arabs claim their Arab(Semitic White) heritage over their Black heritage BECAUSE OF WIDE SPREAD UNIVERSAL PREJUDICE BY ALL ETHNICITIES AGAINST BLACKS, MORE SO THAN ANY OTHER ETHNICITY. Arabs enslaving Blacks goes on to today. NO NATURE HE LIVES THERE SO HE RECOGNIZED THAT THEY ARE ALL BLACK NOT SEMITIC WHITE SKIN ARABS AS YOU CONTINUE TO INSIST THE SAME OLD OUTDATED FALSE NOTION THAT THERE ARE BLACK WHITE PEOPLE. THEY ARE SEMITIC BLACK SKIN ARABS PERIOD. AND WHEN I SAY SEMITIC I MEAN THE LANGUAGE THAT THEY SPEAK. HOWEVER PREJUDICE IS STILL LIVE IN WELL EVEN AMOUNGST THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE AUTHORS OF BOOKS THAT WE USE TO DERIVE OUR DEFINITIONS FROM.
May 22, 2009 at 3:31 am |
I have 4 BLACK Sudanese friends and they feel insulted if you call them Arabs-suite yourself. Your own genetic proof J1 and J2 and haplo V show Arabs are NOT Black.Arabs ARE SEMITIC WHITE NOT BLACK-you have NOT presented evidence otherwise-your evidence shows as mine does, the two different ethnicities MIXED.The Black Sudanese do not like Al-Bashir because he courts the Arab Semitic White for their support.Al-Bashir, himself often uses the term light skinned Arab Sudanese as compared to the Black skinned Sudanese. Funny he does NOT say light skinned Black Sudanese instead of the term ARAB.
May 22, 2009 at 3:21 am |
NATURE TELLS ME;I could find no concrete archeological records of Blacks being in Yemen BEFORE the Arabs(whom you insist are Black), but plenty to indicate after the Arabs whom enslaved many Blacks.Please, present some DNA evidence, archeological evidence, ancient written records anything other than SOME self-proclaimed Afrocentrist saying so. HEY NATURE I QUOTED FROM REPORTS( EURASIAN AND AFRICAN MITOCHONDRIAL DNA INFLUENCES IN THE SAUDI ARABIAN POPULATION) THIS REPORT STAT THAT MIDDLE PALAEOLITHIC ARTEFACTS DISCOVERED IN SOUTHWESTERN AREAS OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA ARE SIMILAR TO ONES RECOVERED IN AFRICA, PROVIDING SUPPORT FOR THE SUGGESTION THAT THE RED SEA COAST MAY HAVE BEEN IMPORTANT IN THIS SOUTHERN EXPANSION. THE MIDDLE PALAEOLITHIC PERIOD IS 300,000 TO 30,000 YEARS AGO. AT THIS PERIOD THERE WAS NOT J1. NOT EVEN 30,000 YRS AGO. HOWEVER THERE WAS HAPGLOGROUP E. FROM THE SAME REPORT “THE PRESENCE OF OBSIDIAN LITHICS ON THE AFRICAN AND ARABIAN SIDES OF THE RED SEA ATTEST TO NEOLITHIC CONTACTS AS WELL. ARCHAEOLOGICAL EVIDENCE SUPPORTS LATE NEOLITHIC LEVATINE COLONIZATION OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA …” NEOLITHIC PERIOD IS ABOUT 9.500 B.C. WHICH IS 11,OOO YRS AGO. ACCORDING TO GENEOBASE TUTORIAL J1-M267 HAS A TMRCA ESTIMATED AT 10,000 YEARS AGO SOME SAY 8,000 YRS AGO. SO AGAIN THERE WERE PEOPLE INTERACTING IN BETWEEN AFRICA AND ARABIA AND J1 STILL WASN’T ON THE SCENE. SO I ASK YOU AGAIN WHO WERE THESE PEOPLE? FROM AGAIN ANOTHER REPORT(ETHIOPIAN MITOCHONDRIAL DNA HERITAGE: TRACKING GENE FLOW ACROSS AND AROUND THE GATE OF TEARS” OBSIDIAN TRADING LINKS BETWEEN COASTAL EAST AFRICA AND ARABIA CAN BE TRACED BACK TO THE 7TH MILLENNIUM B.C.” SINCE THIS WAS 9,000 YRS AGO J1 WASN’T EVEN IN ARABIA YET. SO WHO WERE THESE PEOPLE DEALING IN TRADE BETWEEN AFRICA AND ARABIA. FROM THE REPORT (Y CHROMOSOME DIVERSITY CHARACTERIZES THE GULF OF OMAN ) ” MITOCHONDRIAL DNA ANALYSIS OF THE YEMEN HADRAMAWT INDICATES RECENT GENE FLOW(2500YBP) FROM AFRICA TO THE ARAB OPLUTIONS IN PART THROUGH THE SLAVE TRADE, YET AN ANCIENT ARRIVAL FROM EAST AFRICA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE Y-CHROMOSOME HAPLOTYPES….”SO THIS MEANS THIS Y CHROMOSOME ARRIVEL WAS NOT PERTAINING TO THE SLAVE TRADE. SO WHEN WAS THERE ARRIVAL? WAY BEFORE ANY RECENT SLAVE TRADE. LOOK AT THE COMMENT FROM MAY 19 AND YOU WILL THE REMAINDER OF MY FACTS I PRODUCED FOR YOU FROM THESE REPORTS. JUST WHO WERE THESE PEOPLE BEFORE J1 ARRIVAL ON THE EARTH? THAT WAS SOME OF THE HISTORICAL AND ARCHEAOLOGICAL INFO FROM THEM.
May 22, 2009 at 4:02 am |
El,I presented proof the Ethiopian armies did invade Yemen when Arab Semitic Whites were already there-eventually the Arabs drove them off-again there was mixing. Again you acknowledge J1 as Arab and that Blacks earlier, than you again insist Blacks were the Arabs-you can not have it both ways-Blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities. All ethnicities, including Blacks are descendant from a common ancestor, NOT, all ethnicities are descendant from Black peoples as you seem to imply.
May 22, 2009 at 4:15 am |
NATURE RESPONSE:Now this link does work-the author alludes to the misleading terms of Arabs and non Arabs, also alluding to using these terms anyway.The Zaghawa, Masalit, and Fur tribes tribes are all BLACK Sudanese(NOT ARAB) tribes whom give the Janjaweed(mostly Black Sudanese traitors) their strenghth in numbers. HE IS ALLUDING TO THE FACT THAT SOME ARE CALLED ARABS AND OTHERS ARE CALLED AFRICANS. AGAIN CHECK THE LINK ON THE NORTHERN ARABS OF SUDAN AND YOU WILL SEE THAT THEY ARE BLACK.
May 22, 2009 at 4:31 am |
They are Black Sudanese erroneously labeled Arabs as the author of your article alludes to. Again Arabs and Blacks are two different ethnicities. The article at the following link explains quite nicely, the genetic flow of Black Ethiopians into Yemen and other parts of the Arab world through mainly Black females(rape and consensual), again two different ethnicities. blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities. Their is a signifigant admixture in Yemen(35 % of the population have Arab and Black heritage, decreasing the further you go into Yemen and towards other Arab countries in the Arabian Penisula.
May 22, 2009 at 4:32 am
El, Sorry missed the link: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1180338
May 22, 2009 at 4:37 am |
When I say Black, THE ONES SHOWN IN THE PITURE ARE BLACK. Most Northern Sudanese are Arab Semitic White.
May 22, 2009 at 11:47 pm |
NATURE COMMENTS;I presented proof the Ethiopian armies did invade Yemen when Arab Semitic Whites were already there-eventually the Arabs drove them off-again there was mixing. . ELS RESPONSE: NATURE YOU ARE TALKING ABOUT 1st THRU THE 7th CENTURIES A.D. THE REPORT SAYS A ANCIENT ARRIVAL FROM AFRICA INTO ARABIA. AND THIS ARRIVAL WAS LONG BEFORE YOUR J1 HIT THE EARTH MIDDLE PALEOLITHIC, OBSIDIAN, NEOLITHIC. CHECK THE REPORT FOR YOURSELF. HAPLOGROUP E AND ITS DERIVAITIVES WERE ON THE SCENE ALREADY. THIS GROUP WAS NOT WAITING FOR J1 TO ARRIVE ON THE EARTH BEFORE THEY COLONIZED ARABIA. THESE PEOPLE WERE KNOWN AS THE CUSHITE ETHIOPIANS. THE REPORT ALSO SAYS IN THE CONCLUSION PART…”CHROMOSOMES LIKE E3B1C-M123 SUPPORT ARCHAEOLOGICAL DATA LINKING THE FERTILE CRESCENT WITH TRADING CITIES ALONG THE PERSIAN GULF, WHEREAS DERIVATIVES OF E3B1-M35 POINT TO A NEOLITHIC ARRIVAL TO SOUTHERN ARABIA VIA THE LEVANT. IT SAYS ABOUT J1M257″MEDIAN BATWING EXPANSION TIMES BASED ON YSTR DATA FOR THE OMANI INDICATE A MORE RECENT ARRIVAL TO THE SOUTH ARABIAN POPULATIONS AS COMPARED TO THE OLDER EXPANSION TIMES OBTAINED FOR THE EGYPTIAN AND TURKISH REPRESENTATIVES OF THIS HAPLGROUP. YSTR AGE ESTIMATES BASED ON THE METHOD DESCRIBED BY ZHIVOTOVSKY ET AL GENERATED MUCH OLDER VALUES FOR THE J1-M267 HAPLOGROUP IN YEMEN, QATAR AND UAE THEN SEEN IN THE OMANI, CONSISTENT WITH AN EARLIER ARRIVAL TO THE REGION DURING THE NEOLITHIC. THE DATA SUGGEST EXPANSION FROM THE NORTH DURING THE NEOLITHIC(OR PERHAPS MORE RECENTLY), WHICH IS ALSO REFLECTED IN THE LOWER STR VARIANCES IN SOUTHERN ARABIA…. SUBSEQUENTLY, A SERIES OF RECENT DEMOGRAPHIC EVENTS MAY ACCOUNT FOR THE HIGH HAPLOGROUP FREQUENCY OF J1-M27 IN THE POPULATIONS FROM THE PRESENT STUDY. HOWEVER SINCE THE NEOLITHIC PERIOD IS 9.500 B.C. IN CERTAIN AREAS THIS WOULD MEAN J1-M267 HAD TO ARRIVE AT AS THE REPORT SAYS A MORE RECENT PERIOD. DUE TO THE FACT THAT WE’RE LOOKING AT 11,500 YRS AGO. AND J1 ACCORDING TO GENEOBASE TUTORIAL HAS TMRCA 10,000 YEARS AGO. AND A EXPANSION FROM 10-5KYA. NO WAY THEY COULD HAVE ARRIVED THERE WITH E3B1-M35 DERIVATIVES. EVEN WHEN THE M35 GROUP MIGRATED THERE PEOPLE WERE ALREADY THERE. REMEBER THE OBSIDIAN TRADING LINKS BETWEEN COASTAL EAST AFRICA AND ARABIA DATE BACK TO 7,000 B.C. ABOUT 9000 YRS AGO. THESE WERE GROUPS OF PEOPLE AND AGAIN IT WASN’T J1. LATER, IN THE MID-1ST MILLENNIUM B.C., THE SOUTHERN ARABIAN IMMIGRANTS, OR SABAENS (DESCENDENT FROM THE CUSHITES) APPEARED IN ETHIOPIA. AND THESE WERE BLACK PEOPLE. CUSH IN HEBREW MEANS DARK/BLACK. IN THE FIRST 6 CENTURIES A.D. THE SEMITIC SPEAKING AKSUMITES, OR HABASH(ABYSSINIANS) HAD THEIR CAPITAL CIYTY, AKSUM, IN THE WESTERN PART OF THE PROVINCE OF TIGRAY. THEY CONTROLLED TERRITORIES NORTH TO UPPEER EGYPT, EAST TO THE GULF OF ADEN, AND SOUTHERN ARABIA, SOUTH TO THE OMO RIVER, AND WEST TO THE CUSHITE KINGDOME OF MEROE. THESE ASKUMITES ARE THE ONES YOU ARE REFERING TO WHEN YOU SAY THE ETIOPIAN ARMIES INVADED YEMEN THEY WERE INDEED BLACK PEOPLE AS WELL. THAT IS ANOTHER POINT IS THAT NOT EVERYBODY THAT SPEAKS A SEMITIC LANQUAGE IS WHITE. YOU CAN’T HAVE IT BOTH WAYS NATURE. ARE THEY BLACK OR WHITE? I ALREADY KNOW THE ANSWER. THE PEOPLE THEY INVADED WERE THE HIMYARITE KINGDOM IN SOUTHERN ARABIA ANOTHER BLACK ARABIAN KINDGDOM ACCORDING TO WIKIPEDIA IN THE 5TH CENTURY A.D. THE HIMYARITES IN THE SOUTH OF ARABIA WERE STYLED BY SYRIAN WRITERS AS CUSHAEANS AND ETHIOPIANS. OF COURSE J1 WAS ON THE SCENE THEN BUT THEY WEREN’T RUNNING THE SHOW. MIXING MIGHT HAVE OCCURED THEN. BUT IT WASN’T A WHITE SEMITIC MASTER, BLACK ARABIAN OR ETHIOPIAN SLAVE TYPE THING THEN. YOU CAN FORGET TRYING TO ATTRIBUTE BLACK GREATNESS TO WHITE IMMIGRANTS. YOUR ATTEMP IS FUTILE. ITS JUST ANOTHER CASE OF WHITE SUPREMECY THEOLOGY THAT YOU HAVE GROWN UP WITH AND CONTINUE TO PERPETUATE. BLACK PEOPLE MIGHT HAVE FELL FOR THAT TRICK BACK IN THE DAYS BUT NOT IN THESE DAYS NATURE.
May 23, 2009 at 12:17 am |
NATURE TELLS ME;They are Black Sudanese erroneously labeled Arabs as the author of your article alludes to. Again Arabs and Blacks are two different ethnicities. The article at the following link explains quite nicely, the genetic flow of Black Ethiopians into Yemen and other parts of the Arab world through mainly Black females(rape and consensual), again two different ethnicities. balcks and Arabs are two diferent ethnicities. Their is a signifigant admixturein Yemen(35 % of the population have Arab and Black heritage, decreasing the further you go into Yemen and towards other Arab countries in the Arabian Penisula. WELL NATURE THAT REPORT IS OLD TRY THIS MORE RECENT ONE 2008 THIS EXPLAINS QUITE NICELY HOW THE GENE FLOW WAS ATTRIBUTE TO A NUMBER OF EVENTS NOT JUST SLAVERY. http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v16/n3/abs/5201934a.html
May 23, 2009 at 6:15 am |
Your link is consistent with what I said, read it again.The further you go into Arab countries, the less the Black genes are present. Same with the Arab gene flow the further into Africa you go, the less the Arab genes are present-here are some helpful links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E3b_(Y-DNA)
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/tag/y-chromosome/
There is no question the two different ethniciities mixed, but, again, you seem insistent up on classifying both as Black-tell me why Blacks have no J1 and J2 groups-if they do, they are NOT full Blacks, but have Arab Semitic White heritage-Mulattos.Yes, I realize most Arabs have a golden brown skin color, but that is NOT how anthropologists classify ethnicities-it is through skeletal bone measurements and points, mainly the skull, and more recently, DNA. As you agreed, you can tell Arab American Jamie Farr is NOT in the the same ethnic group as Bill Cosby, Black American, yet you turn around and say Arabs are Black. Well, as I gave earlier, do you think Casey Kasem, Arab American, ( http://www.moviefone.com/celebrity/casey-kasem/1150539/main?flv=1 ) is Black? how about Ralph Nader, Arab American, ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ralph_Nader)? Notice their golden brown skin color and lack of Black facial features. Can you truly say they are Black-if you do, there is NO convincing you Arabs and Blacks are two different ethnicities. If you do NOT think they are Black, then at least you acknowledge, Arabs and Blacks are not the same ethnicity, although YOU may not consider them White because they have a golden brown skin color. Surely, you can see they do NOT have Black features. The Blacks you show pictures of in your links, are Blacks or possibly Black/ Arab mixes, but certainly not Arabs. As I mentioned earlier, many Blacks do claim to be Arabs to avoid the greater prejudice against Blacks(yes, there is prejudice against Arabs to, as there are other ethnic groups, but lets face the truth, for some unkown reason, it is universal against Blacks. I have not, do not, and will not, tolerate prejudice against any group as those whom know me will testify to.
May 23, 2009 at 6:17 am |
El, sorry here are the helpful links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E3b_(Y-DNA)
http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/tag/y-chromosome/
May 23, 2009 at 12:33 am |
I MISSED THIS COMMENT FROM YOU NATURE:El, I can not figure you out-your own evidence shows genetically, Arab Semitic Whites and Blacks are two different ethnicities, yet you insist Blacks are Arabs(incorrect) and that the lighter skinned Arabs are a mix-again incorrect. You agreed Arab American Jamie Farr(you acted as if being an American changed that both his parents are Arabs from the Middle East and this no longer made him represent an Arab) is NOT in the same ethnic heritage as Black American Bill Cosby(for some reason, you did not use the same reasoning because he was born in America, he was not Black-strange).You keep showing pictures of Blacks claiming they are Arabs-they are not, but nationality, they can be called what ever Arab country they are a citizen in.For instance, if they live in Egypt(Arab Semitic White), they can be called Black Egyptians NOT Black Arabs. If Arabs live in Africa, they can be called White Africans, NOT Black.Bashire is Black, but seems to loathe being identified as such.The following links will clearify your thinking:
http://www.inthesetimes.com/article/1071/
The following is an excellent discussion why you are wrong:
http://sudanwatch.blogspot.com/2009/02/sudans-bashir-talk-of-arabs-killing.html
Arab Semitic Whites Enslaving black Sudanese:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/6455365.stm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_in_Sudan
http://southsudanfriends.org/slavery2.html
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/AllDocsByUNID/31843f101e50cb43c1256a16005aae34
http://www.trinicenter.com/modules.php?name=News&file=article&sid=1154 I CHECKED THE LINKS BUT I COULDN’T FIND THOSE WHITE SEMITIC ARAB ENSLAVERS. WHAT I SEE IS A BLACK ON BLACK CRIME BEING PERPEUTATED.
May 23, 2009 at 5:48 am |
The articles clearly separate the TWO ethnicities-Arab and Black, not Black on Black.
May 23, 2009 at 1:04 am |
NATURE YOU SAY AGAIN; Again you acknowledge J1 as Arab and that Blacls earlier, than you again insist Blacks were the Arabs-you can not have it both ways-Blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities. All ethnicities, including Blacks are descendant from a common ancestor, NOT, all ethnicities are descendant from Blck peoples as you seem to imply. EL RESPONSE, I NEVER SAID SUCH A THING NATURE. J1 IS JUST 1 HAPLOGROUP THAT INCLUDE SEMITIC SPEAKING PEOPLE. DOESN’T MEAN THEY ARE WHITE THOUGH. HAPLOGROUP E HAS SEMITIC SPEAKING PEOPLE TO. THE MORROCO ARABS FOR INSTANCE. NOW HAS FAR AS FOR BLACK PEOPLE BEING THE ORIGIN OF ALL HUMANS, AS I SAID BEFORE HAPLOGROUP A IS THE OLDEST AND MOST DIVERSE DATING TO 60,000 YEARS AGO. THIS HAPLOGROUP IS REPRESENTED BY PEOPLES FROM SUB-SAHARAN AFRICA INCLUDING THOSE IN ETHIOPIA, THE SUDANESE AND SOUTHERN REGIONS IN AFRICA THESE ARE BLACK PEOPLE. NOW HAPLOGROUP F IS 45,000 YEARS OLD. 15,000 YEARS YOUNGER THAN HG-A. ETHIOPIANS AND SUDANESE POSSESS ARE A PART OF THIS HAPLGROUP. THIS HAPLOGROUP IS THE ANCESTER TO HAPLOGROUPS G,H,I,J,K. SO THE ETHIOPIANS ARE ACTUALLY THE ANCESTORS OF THESE HAPLOGROUPS. AND GUESS WHAT NATURE, THEY ARE BLACK PEOPLE. SO IF YOU GOT J1 IT ORIGINATED IN A BLACK POPULATION OF PEOPLE TO BEGIN WITH. THE VARIOUS SHADES OF BLACK (BROWN, YELLOW AND WHITE) CAME LATER ESPECIALLY THE WHITE. REMEMBER THE S1 GENE? NOW AFTER THEIR ARRIVALS THEY SIMPLE HAVE BEEN MIXING WITH THE ORIGINAL POPULATIONS OF BLACK PEOPLE. WHITE WITH YELLOW, YELLOW WITH BROWN, WHITE WITH BROWN, WHITE WITH BLACK, YELLOW WITH BLACK ETC. THIS IS WHERE WE GET THE VARIOUS SO-CALLED MIXED ETHNICITIES FROM.
May 23, 2009 at 5:50 am |
The ONLY time J1 is expressed is in Arabs or people of Arab and Black heritage. It is not present in Blacks so, how can it originate from Black peoples?
May 23, 2009 at 9:28 pm |
NATURE COMMENTS;The ONLY time J1 is expressed is in Arabs or people of Arab and Black heritage. It is not present in Blacks so, how can it originate from Black peoples? SHOW ME SOME FACTS TO VALIDATE THAT ONE NATURE?
May 23, 2009 at 9:48 pm |
Read your own proof as well as my earlier answers-the proof is there.Show me some proof Blacks that are NOT mixed have J1 and J2 groups.
May 23, 2009 at 9:46 pm |
NATURE WRONG AGAIN;The articles clearly separate the TWO ethnicitiesArab and Black, not Black on Black . NATURE THE BAGARRA ARE NOT WHITE. DINKA ARE NOT WHITE EITHER SO WHAT WHITE SEMITIC ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT? WHAT IS THE NAME OF THIS WHITE SEMITIC ARAB TRIBE THAT IS ENSLAVING THE AFRICANS TODAY.
May 24, 2009 at 3:28 am |
El, here are some links showing the differences between Blacks and Arabs-note particularly the first and second-yes, as I said before, they also point out there were admixtures, but Arabs and Blacks are clearly two different ethnicities-now show me any evidence that J1 exists in Blacks that have NO ARAB ancestry-if a person has J1, they have Arab ancestry:
http://www.egyptsearch.com/forums/Forum8/HTML/002530.html
https://sites.google.com/a/luther.edu/johnathan-storlie-phd/john-s-mitochondrial-history
http://www.blendjournal.com/blog.php?user=sEnTenCe¬e=24
May 25, 2009 at 9:25 am |
good grief!!! Why all this controversy about whether the egyptians are black? And such hatefulness!!! Who are all the people on this website to say? Ask a “real” egyptian—there are millions of them out there today. Ask the Egyptians if they are black or white. MOst of them consider themselves an Arabic type people. So who are we to question them? THey ought to have a better idea than us what they think they are!!!!
May 25, 2009 at 4:43 pm |
What hatefulness?We are having an intelligent debate-there is no name calling, no one calling one ethnicity superior to another-just clearifying points.Blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities-how can you turn that into hatefulness-I will NOT tolerate prejudice-if I felt someone was being hateful in any way, I would delete their comments, and I have NOT done so yet.If people are not willing to discuss subjects on a meaningful basis-this is what leads to prejudice.The problem here, is whether one ethnicity is claiming the achievements of another ethnicity and even their heritage.
May 26, 2009 at 3:27 am |
NATURE SAID ;Read your own proof as well as my earlier answers-the proof is there.Show me some proof Blacks that are NOT mixed have J1 and J2 groups. IT WOULD BE NICE TO SEE THE PEOPLE THEY ACTUALLY TOOK THOSE SAMPLES FROM. AGAIN JUST BECAUSE SOME ONE MAY HAVE J1 OR J2 IT DOESN’T MEAN THEY ARE ARAB NATURE. THE FACT THAT MORROCO ARABS HAVE 40% E-M78 NULLS AND VOIDS SUCH A PREMISS. HOWEVER HAPLOGROUP J ARE MORE FREQUENT AMOUNGST ARABS, BEJA, COPTS, AND HAUSA, AND NIGER-CONGO SPEAKERS FROM THE FULANI ETHIC GROUP. THATS IN SUDAN. THAT DOESN’T MEAN A PERSON IS MIXED. IT SAYS SEMITIC SPEAKING GROUPS HAVE J1 NOT THAT THEY ARE ALL ARAB’S. EVEN JEWS HAVE J1 AND THEY ARE NOT ARABS. POINT BLANK J1 DOESN’T MAKE YOU A ARAB.
May 26, 2009 at 3:50 am |
Jews and Arabs are BOTH Semitic White and share up to 40 % of the same genetic markers-J1 is a marker that identifies Semitic White. If people have this marker, they are either Semitic White or of mixed heritage. The Fulani have had much contact with the Arabs in Sudan and, therefore, there is admixture there tp. Blacks as I said before, do not have J!.
May 26, 2009 at 3:42 am |
NATURE RESPONDS;Your link is consistent with what I said, read it again.The further you go into Arab countries, the less the Black genes are present. Same with the Arab gene flowthe further into Africa you go, the less the Arab genes are present-here are some helpful links: . NATURE THIS LINK EXPLAIINS EXACTLY WHAT I HAVE BEEN TELLING YOU THAT THE ORIGINAL PEOPLE TO OCCUPY THE ARABIAN PENINSULA ARE A BLACK CUSHITE PEOPLE. SOME MIGRATED FROM THE HORN IN TO SOUTHERN ARABIA WHERE AS OTHERS TOOK THE LEVANT CORRIDOR NORTH THEN SOUTH IN TO ARABIA. YOU ATTEMPTED TO ATTRIBUTE BLACK PEOPLE IN ARABIA DUE TO THE SLAVE TRADE. THIS REPORT TELLS YOU THAT WAS ONE WAY. BUT IT ALSO TELL YOU THAT THE Y CHRORMOSOMES FOR E HG CAME AT A MORE ANCIENT DATE WHICH HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE SLAVE TRADE. WHERE AS J1 WAS MORE RECENT AND ITS INCREASE IN FREQUENCEY MAY BE DUE TO A MORE RECENT DEMOGRAPHIC EVENTS. REMEMBER WE ARE DEALING WITH PRESENT POPULATIONS. IN THE PAST THE PERCENCTAGES MAY HAVE BEEN DIFFERENT.
May 26, 2009 at 3:55 am |
Read the links I provided. J1 was present in Yemen as far back as 50,000 years ago, negating your evidence to the contrary. J1 is an Arab Semitic White marker only in Arabs and people mixed with Arabs. The Semitic Whites were in Yemen BEFORE the Ethiopian invasions. You have yet to show me that any unmixed Blacks have J1 markers. This is one marker that identifies Arabs.
May 26, 2009 at 4:21 am
Wrong again nature; that could not be so when y chromosome haplogroup j originates from haplogroup F and F they say appeared in north africa some 45,000 years ago. according to geneobase tutorial says hgJ dates to 30,000 kya. that would make sense. haplogroup j1 is 10,000 kya with and expansion from 10-5 kya. Genenobase tutorials. If we were to attempt to make sense out of your erroneous information that would be like saying that you were here before your grand parents. They could not be your grand parents if that was the case.
May 26, 2009 at 5:28 am
Haplo group F’s origin has not been absolutely confirmed and is 50,000 years old. IT MAY have originated in North Africa,but MOST experts believe it originated in the Arabian Peninsula with back flow into Africa, the Levant, or the Arabian Peninsula–the Levant and Arabian Peninsula are the origins of the Arabs: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_F_(Y-DNA)
May 30, 2009 at 2:06 am
Wrong again nature. J is born somewhere in the fertile crescent, a region that includes israel, the west bank, jordan, lebanon, syria and iraq. Not in arabia. Genobase says J1 m267 Northern source, i.e. the caucasus of j1 presumed for the populations in the arabian peninsula. Does this mean j1 one is from the caucasus if so, thats not arabia either. Seeing as they migrated to arabia during the neolithic or more recently, that pretty much tells us they are not the original arabs or first people to occupy the arabian peninsula. As i told you before it was the black people from the E group. I are ready showed you the black arabs(save the true arabs) that you have tried to call descendants of slaves as most of the bias white historians have attempted to prove (of course the report proves otherwise). I have also so showed you black people in africa with j1 and your response is that they are mixed. However since you nor i know who these specific individuals are that they tested we can only speculated. But the facts remain there are blacks and light skinned people with j1 and E-78 that speak a semitic lanquage and some are called arabs.
May 30, 2009 at 5:28 am
El, once again YOU proved MY point with a few corrections- I never said Arabia, but the Arabian Peninsula-Arabia, as well as all the other countries you listed are in the Arabian Penisula- so far you have presented either people whom really are Black(not Arabs) , or, are MIXED. Blacks do not have CAUCASION haplomarkers-Arabs do. Indo European Aryan Whites and Blacks DO NOT have J1. If aperson that is NOT full Arab, but has J1-they are mixed-Black/Arab Semitic White-no such creature as a Black Arab. As I explained earlier-you(you are not alone) confuse ethnicity with nationality-see the Mostafa Hefny example I gave earlier to clearify this for you. Once again, Jamie Farr is Arab American-by YOUR own admittance, he does not look in the same ethnic group as Black American, Bill Cosby. Michael Jackson is another very good example of artificial ethnicity change. Even if he was restored to his dark brown skin-you would not think he was Black(well you might) because all his Black identifing facial features have been removed.Those Blacks that call themselves Arabs, often do so because of wide spread prejudice against Blacks. You have YET to present any evidence that Blacks have haplogoup J1 in them unless they are MIXED as I pointed to you in many of you own examples, even providing you with links.
El, here are the haplo groups according to ethnic back ground(Arabs have all the haplogroups for Caucasians plus J1-this makes them Semitic Whites-Blacks do not have the Caucasian markers):
ETHNIC HAPLOMARKERS
Caucasoid-E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group- C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid- A, B ,E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks
Bottom line, Blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities ANY way you cut it-genetically and by anthropological measurements.
May 31, 2009 at 2:19 am
As i said nature the northern source i.e. the causaus for j1 is outside of the arabian peninsula. j2 appears to have originated in the northern part of the fertile crescent and expanded west toward europe…The northern part of the fertile crescent in not in the arabian peninsula. Arabian peninsula up north is northern parts of jordan and southern parts of syria and western parts of iraq.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus However arabia deserta(the deserts) became occupied in time by a semitic white group who became known as arabs. (where did they learn a semitic lanquage from?) But to add that Arabia was originally settled by a earlier race of cushite ethiopians. These cushites were the original arabians who occupied the settled sedentary lands to the south in arabia felix. The southern black arabs spoke a southern form of arabic otherwise called himyaritic. In time some of these dersert arabs began to settle and mix with the older cushite arabians and produce a mixed population. If you notice they still love to mix amoungst the black people. By the way jamie farr looks like he might have some black in his ancestry. judging by the various skin tones of omani arabs like the sultan of oman. and prince bandir of saudi i can see a greyish tan in him that may be natural. Its no secret that light skinned arabs loved those black skinned woman and had babies by them. however i think that the reverse is true to. That the cushite arabians chose some of those white women for their harems to. and produced light skin offsprings from them as well. Race mixing went both ways. Light skin arabs are not true whites. True whites would be those northern and western europeans. Everbody else might have that touch of black in them.
May 31, 2009 at 4:45 am
There you go again, Arabs have the Caucasian haplomarkers, J1 one setting them off as Semitic White-Blacks do NOT have these haplomarkers, so they did NOT originate with Blacks. I doubt Jamie Farr has any Black ancestry as he has never mementioned it, but without a DNA test, I could not say that definitively-however, he looks like MOST typical Arabs, NOT BLACK ethnicity. I am not certain WHY you keep insisting Arabs and Blacks are the same etnicity-the Arab presence as I have shown you, earlier PREDATES Black Ethiopian invasions and the Black Ethiopians were driven out again. I have never denied there was any mixing of the two DIFFERENT ethnicities. I have presented all the proof YOU requested, NOW PRESENT PROOF THAT J1 is a a Black haplogroup-only those of MIXED ARAB/BLACK have it or pure Arabs-it simply does NOT occur in pure Blacks. As I showed, the M and N haplogroups DO EXIST in all ethnic groups, but certain subclades exist in ONLY Black populations-this does NOT mean every ethnicity is descendant from Black people, but all ethnicities diversified from one source and spread out:out-of-Africa theory-personally, I still believe the old theory, ethnicities all started in different areas at about the same time-this better explains why gene pools are in clusters with the ethnicities and the ethnic groups fanned out and mixed rather than one source in Africa.
NOW PLEASE PRESENT GENETIC PROOF THAT ARABS AND BLACKS ARE THE SAME ETHNICITY-really, everything you presented, has backed my view, although you keep insisting it is not so based on your opinion. Present genetic eidence that J1 is NOT only in Arabs or in persons of mixed Arab heritage.
May 31, 2009 at 5:10 am
El, here are some links that will clearify the origins of J1 for you:
El, it is you wom is mistaken-view the links-J1 one is from the Arabian Peninsula:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Southwest_Asia
June 3, 2009 at 4:38 am
No nature i have shown you that the so-callled white semitic arabs were johnny come latelys who came into the peninsula after the black cushite ethiopians. The cushite ethiopians came as colonizers prior to any arrival of white semitic arabs. The invasion that you are talking about was much later in the A.D.’s I presented you with the arrival of the Cushite ethiopian in the B.C. period. also in the neolithic. I repeat and will continue to say that all people originate from the black people. This is the source that all ethinicities(your words) derived from whether you like it or not. Again you Can’t have a j with out a F and you can’t have a F without a A. So show me J or F Existing before A. emphaticaly impossible nature. Just when exactly did the first true white skinned people appear on the planet? I don’t mean light skin. puerto ricans are light skinned and if you called them white they would be ready to give you some problems because they don’t see themselves as the typical white person. Oh i see you believe in the polygenetist theory. That conflicts with your christian religion nature. BLACK IS NOT A COUNTRY NATURE OR A LANQUAGE BLACK IS THE SOURCE OF ALL LIFE WHEITHER YOU LIKE IT OR NOT. ARAB IS A PERSON WHO SPEAKS ARABIC OR WHOSE ANCESTRY OR WHO IS BORN IN ARABIA. THAT LINQUISTIC AND GEOGRAPHICAL NATURE. THE BLACKMAN HAS BEEN ALL OVER THE PLANET EARTH HE IS NOT LIMITED TO THE SO-CALLED CONTINENT OF AFRICA. NOR IS HE LIMITED TO A PATICULAR LANQUAGE. I HAVE ALREADY PROVED TO YOU THAT YOUR J1 ARAB ONLY CONCEPT IS NONSENSE AGAIN ARABS ALSO HAVE E, AND F. SO YOU ARE THE ONE CAUGHT IN A QUADMIRE TRYING TO RANGLE THIS J1 ONLY CONCEPT OUT. IT DOESN’T FIT. I HAVE ALREADY RECOGNIZED THIS. HOW LONG WILL IT TAKE YOU TO FIGURE IT OUT.
June 5, 2009 at 12:14 am
WHAT DO YOU MEAN IN THIS COMMENT THAT THEY DIDN’T ORIGINATE WITH BLACKS? HAPLOMARKERS ARE GENETIC VARIATIONS THAT OCCURED ALONG A GENETIC LINEAGE CONTINIUM FROM FATHER TO SON AND SO ON. BUT THEY ALL ORIGINATE FROM ONE SOURCE. SO YOU CAN BE OF A DIFFERENT HAPLOGROUP HOWEVER LINKED STILL TO A COMMON ANCESTOR THE BLACK PEOPLE.
June 5, 2009 at 6:19 am
El, here are some links for you to examine-apparently, you have not examined the other links I have provided for you either-please, to make this discussion more fruitful, examine them, then you will see the true facts. I also provided a breakdown of the haplogroups by ethnicity and will reproduce it here, but I did use it in an answer to you a few replies back:
ETHNIC HAPLOMARKERS
Caucasoid-E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group- C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid- A, B ,E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks
Click to access yhaplogroup.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_F_(Y-DNA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA
http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpJ09.html
http://m172.blogspot.com/2009/03/haplogroup-j-in-gulf-of-oman.html
http://www.nature.com/ejhg/journal/v12/n12/full/5201278a.html
http://www.mitochondrial.net/showcitationlist.php?keyword=caucasian%20mtdna%20haplogroups
Pure Blacks can still be found in the deep Congo tribes and the Ariaal tribe of Kenya, although admixing is now occuring-they had been isolated until the 1970’s:
June 6, 2009 at 5:01 pm
NATURE YOU SAID I also provided a breakdown of the haplogroups by ethnicity and will reproduce it here, but I did use it in an answer to you a few replies back: AND YOUR REFERENCE FOR THIS BREAKDOWN IS? YOU NEVER PROVIDED A LINK TO THIS. THATS WHY I DIDN’T RESPOND TO IT.
June 6, 2009 at 5:10 pm
THE FIRST 6 LINKS YOU PROVIDED I HAD ALREADY. THEY PROVE NOTHING OF WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING. IF SO, LIKE I SAID LETS TAKE IT SENTENCE BY SENTENCE REPORT BY REPORT. THE OTHER 2 IS PERTAINING TO MTDNA NOT Y CHROMOSOME DNA. THE LAST ONE WELL..LETS JUST SAY NICE ARTICLE, BUT IT DOESN’T PROVE YOUR POINTS. AS I SAID IN MY PREVIOUS POST YOU WOULD START SAYING F AND E ARE CAUCASIAN HAPLOGROUPS. YOU PROVED MY WORDS TO BE TRUE FOR F, NOW WHEN ARE YOU GOING TO ADD E TO THE LIST?
June 6, 2009 at 10:31 pm
I proved MY ,not, your, point for group F is a Semitic marker-not present in Blacks, only Arabs and some other Semitic peoples and peoples of mixed Semitic White(usually Arab)/other heritage.Haplogroup E with the exception of subclade E1b1b(caucasian haplomarker), is only present in Blacks. E1b1b subclade of haplogroup E is a Caucasian/non Black haplomarkers – all other E subclades are Black haplomarkers:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E_(Y-DNA)
Consider it added.
June 9, 2009 at 12:09 am
Nature as i said before lets take it sentence by sentence report by report together. You said e1b1b is a caucasian haplomarker, what report says that it is only a caucasian/non black haplomarker? IN THIS REPORT WIKI.. NOTICE THAT E1B1B IS M215(ALSO CALLED E3B) ORIGINATING FROM EAST AFRICA(phylogeographic analysis of haplogrop E3b(E-M-215)Y chromosomes….) . NOW E1B1B(E-M215) IS FOUND TO OCCUR MORE IN NILO-SAHARAN RATHER THAN AFROASIAN SPEAKING GROUPS. NOW LETS NAME SOME OF THESE NILO-SAHARAN GROUPS FUR, BORGU AND MASALIT. IM SURE I DON’T HAVE TO REMIND YOU THAT THESE ARE BLACK GROUPS. SO AGAIN YOU ARE INCORRECT ABOUT THAT ONE. NOW I ASK YOU WHAT MAKES THIS E1B1B A CAUCASIAN HAPLOMARKER. THIS WOULDN’T BE A CASE OF YOU TRYING TO MAKE BLACK PEOPLE- WHITE BLACK PEOPLE WOULD IT NATURE?
June 9, 2009 at 12:33 am
WHERE IS THE REPORT FOR F BEING A SEMITIC MARKER(WHAT EVER THAT MEANS). IF YOU MEAN WHITE FOR SEMITIC I WOULD HAVE TO SAY THAT F WAS HERE BEFORE WHITE SKINNED PEOPLE WALKED THE EARTH. HOWEVER WIKIPEDIA SAYS IT (F) MAY HAVE FIRST APPEARED IN NORTH AFRICA SOME 45,000 YEARS BEFORE PRESENT (JUST WHEN EXACTLY DID THE FIRST WHITE SKINNED PERSON APPEAR ON EARTH)? AND ANOTHER WIKI SAYS 50,000 YRS AGO. ALSO MAY HAVE APPEAR IN NORTH AFRICA, THE LEVANT,OR THE ARABIAN PENINSULA. DAMN THEY JUST DON’T KNOW ITS EXACT PLACE OF ORIGIN. THE SAME WITH HAPLOGROUP E. ONE MINUTE ITS EAST AFRICA NEXT MINUTE ITS ASIA NOW ITS A AFRICAN ORIGIN AGAIN GOING BACK TO 50,000 YBP. ANYWAY YOU SEE THEY CAN SAME SOMETHING IS TRUE ONE YEAR AND THEY CHANGE THERE MIND ANOTHER. THIS TELLS ME AGAIN THAT THEY ARE STILL TRYING TO FIGURE IT OUT FOR THEMSELVES. OH BY THE WAY DID YOU GET THAT TIME ORIGIN FOR J1 CLEARED UP?
June 5, 2009 at 6:25 am
Haplomarkers J and F are mutations that occurred outside of Africa and there was some genetic backflow into North Africa with the Arab Semitic Whites. Again, the ethnicities are not descended from Blacks, but ALL ethnicities had a common ancestor-Homo habilis, the earliest known species of the genus Homo, the first human species. It existed in Africa from approximately 2.2 to 1.6 million years ago.
June 6, 2009 at 5:25 pm
Haplogroup A is the most common recent ancestor for all of these present haplomarkers. Haplomarker B was mutated in africa. But it still came from the same source which is A (you haven’t check you own links or you overlook these facts). The Y-DNA haplogroup tree 2009 proves this. So what if j and F mutated outside of africa it still doesn’t make it any less black. We are born in america it doesn’t make us white. Location of mutation has no bearing on racial context nature.
June 6, 2009 at 10:33 pm
As I have said all along-common ancestor-not from Black people.
June 9, 2009 at 12:51 am
WHAT IS THE COMMON ANCESTOR A MONKEY NOW NATURE? IF YOU BELIEVE THAT ONE YOU CAN’T BE A CHRISTIAN. MAYBE THEY WERE PURPLE PEOPLE OR ORANGE? YOU WOULD RATHER SAY THAT THEY WERE ANYTHING BUT BLACK WOULDN’T YOU? MY HOW YOUR ARE FULL OF CONTRIDICTIONS. Anyway i was checking the comment you made about the group that entered kemet/egypt you say 5,000 yrs ago. or 5,000 b.c.? did they come from the levant? where are their monuments to prove that they were the original founders of that Egyptian civilization? my understanding is that these groups were nomadic tribes. But where is your evidence that they worshiped Ra, or Atem or Amen. Where is their written records in the meduneter letters? What did they just leave there homeland to build such greatness in another peoples homeland? As for the sphinx it represents not khafra as some have propagate but it is a representation of harmakhu the lord of the double horizon as horus. Not khafra?
June 9, 2009 at 4:30 pm
I am answering all your questions here.
Haplogroup E1(P147) and E2(M75) are considered Negroid subclades(restricted to only Blacks) and E3b(M35)-E1b1b are considered Caucasoid subclades(only E subclade seen outside of Africa and common in Middle Eastern and European Whites).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E_(Y-DNA)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup
http://dienekes.50webs.com/blog/archives/000531.html
http://dic.academic.ru/dic.nsf/enwiki/1716706
http://www.htmlsd.com/haplogroups.htm
http://www.geinvestigations.com/dnaancestry.shtml
As I presented to you with links in my last answer-J1 does not occur in Blacks. Most authorities believe F and J1 , as I said earlier, originate from the Arabian Peninsula-please, read the links when I provide them for you. I agree with you that the information out there is ambiguous at best-names changing(not standardized, one authority disagreeing with another. I have presented what appears to be what MOST, not, all authorities agree upon.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_F_(Y-DNA)
http://www.htmlsd.com/haplogroups.htm
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J1_ (Y-DNA)
YOU WOULD RATHER SAY THAT THEY WERE ANYTHING BUT BLACK WOULDN’T YOU? MY HOW YOUR ARE
The Al-Ubaid are considered an Arab tribe in Egypt since about 5,000 B.C.-some say longer some say shorter).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ubaid_period
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Ubaid_(tribe)
The only iformation I could find that was not hearsay, on the medu neter hieroglyphics indicates it was of Semitic origin, called African Asiatic or African Semitic language(does not indicate of Black origin) from which the Arabic and Hebrew languages were derived.
The following links show images of Amenhotep III( harmakhu)-I am sure you can see King Khafre looks more like the head on the Sphinx than does Amenhotep III-King Khafre is the ruler that had the Sphinx built:
http://www.ancient-egypt.co.uk/luxor_museum/pages/amenhotep%20III%20sobek%201.htm
http://www.kenseamedia.com/may/lm1_pic.htm
June 16, 2009 at 9:59 pm
Nature Wikipedia states that E1b1b is at once the most common Y haplogroup among ETHIOPIANS, SOMALIS, ERITREANS AND NORTH AFRICAN BERBERS AND ARABS. MIGHT AS WELL ADD SUDANESE TO THAT AS WELL. The term caucasian that you throw around so easily is a more recent term 1800’s developed by a german scientist and anthropologist who developed the concept for caucasian race after the peoples of the caucasus using craniology based on the georgian skull. So in this context ethiopians, somalis, eritreans and north african berbers and arabs would not be caucasians. 1932 meyers blitz-lexikon divided europaid types into nordic race, dinaric race mediterranean race, alpine race, east baltic race, turks, bedouins(arabid race) and afghans. Dravidians were classified as non-caucasoid but as australoid or a seperate dravidian race. Coon in 1939 (the races of europe) calls them caucasoid, due to what he says is their caucasiod skull structure and other physical traits nose, eyes hair. The united states uses the term to describe white americans. A theory was propagated about the hamitic race being a sub-group of the caucasian race and suggested that the hamitic race was superior to the negroid race of sub sahara african populations. And that all technologies and civilizing skills were brought by them into africa. However originally hamitic refered to the people that were descenents of ham noahs son. During the middle ages they taught this ment that ham was the father of the all africans(black) which eventually produced the hamitic curse concept. Which was used to justify the enslavement of black people. However later times have berbers, toubou, fulani, guanches, egyptians, nubians, ethiopians, oromo, somali and tutsis being classified as hamites meaning the sub-group of the caucasian race. I could go on with more of what is called scientific racism however you can check it for yourself at wikipedia. However what all this tells me is that this term caucasian is thrown around for a agenda. And it has been used by anthropologist and historians etc for a racist purpose. Now it seems you are attempting to use genetics for this same purpose. But it won’t work here. You might as well forget using caucasian for anything but white european populations. Genetics tells us that europeans have white skin due to different genes from white skinned asians. So the 2 are not the same. And as for ethiopians (burnt faces) this is what the greeks called them. Egyptians called the kush meaning black. So leave that caucasoid where it belongs in the garbage. These people are black and not white period. And yes they are the possessors of this e1b1b dna that you want to only be a white marker.
June 16, 2009 at 11:37 pm
Ethiopians, somalis, and north african berbers may have E1b1b because of Black/White admixture.They also have the E1 and E2 subclades only found in Blacks. E1b1b is spread oout through the Middle East and Europe, the ONLY E subclade in high percentages OUTSIDE of Africa Eritreans are Arabs and have the same haplomarkers that separate Arab Semitic White- Caucasians from Indo European Aryan White-Caucasians.
There is much cofusion over E subcades-the following may help clear it up:
Haplogroup E (M96) is a Y-chromosome DNA haplogroup. Haplogroup E could possibly have originated in Northeast Africa, if based on the concentration and variety of E subclades in that area today. But Haplogroup E is so closely linked with Haplogroup D, which is not found in Africa, in turn could just as eaily suggest that E first arose in the Near or Middle East and was subsequently carried into Africa by a back migration.
Haplogroup E is divided into two sub-clades: E1 (or E-P147), defined by SNP mutation P147, and E2 (or E-M75), defined by M75.
E1 is in turn divided into important sub-clades as follows:
E1a (formerly E1), defined by mutations M33 and M132. Two sub-clades are recognized:
E1a1 (or E-M44, formerly E1a)
E1a2 (or E-P110)
E1b, defined by mutation P177. This in turn contains two very significant sub-clades:
E1b1 (formerly E3). E1b1 is further divided into two sub-clades
E1b1a (formerly E3a)
E1b1b (formerly E3b)
E1b2 (formerly E4)
E2 is less commonly found, and has two recognized sub-clades:
E2a M41/P210
E2b M54, M90, M98. This clade contains E2b1 (E-M85), formerly known as E2b2, and its sub-clades.
E1a and E2 are found almost exclusively in Africa, and only E1b1b is observed in significant frequencies in Europe and western Asia in addition to Africa. Most Sub-Saharan Africans belong to subclades of E other than E1b1b, while most non-Africans who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade.
Click to access Y%20Chromosome%20Haplogroup%20E-M78%20(E3b1a).pdf
June 17, 2009 at 8:52 pm
P2 or PN2 is the ancestor of haplogroup E1b1b and E1b1a. HG E1b1b and E1b1a are still related. This would be like saying a blackman and blackwoman had 2 children born at different times lets say seven years apart. Lets say these children grew up and had children of their own. The offsprings would still be related. Lets say that one of the group moved away a far distance and had kids with people occupying the new location. This group has offsprings and one of the offsprings have a genetic variation and goes on to reproduce kids with different skin variations, lets say light skin. And this light skinned go on to mix with other light skinned and white skinned people. And the product of this is white skinned who says “hey i want to go back and visited the land of my ancesters . And returns to his ancestrial homeland to find the descentdants of his ancester, and they are black. He would still be related to them. In other words Apply this to e1b1a and e1blb. Ethiopians are black but in europe in the balkins these people may be white skinned but still related to the people of ethiopia as well as the people of sub saharan africa. Of course ethiopia is in sub sahara however thats just another trick used to say who is the true so-called negro vs the mixed? But like i said if you come from Haplogroup A, which is black like the khoisan and the ethiopians for example. HG A being the ancestor of HG BT which is the parent of HG CT whose offspring is HG CF. CF being the father of DE that goes on to become E in africa or outside of Africa. You’d still be black that is if you don’t have a severlly mutated gene that would produce a white european type skin complexion. The fact would still remain the same. You originated from a black people not apes or monkeys or guerillas etc.
June 17, 2009 at 11:36 pm
Different ethnicities diverged from a common ancestor, NOT from
Black people-as I mentioned earlier, two forms of Homo sapiens existed in Africa about the same time-Cro Magnon(Caucasoid characteristics) and Idaltu(Negroid characteristics). As a very good example, lets use grapes-I will kep scientific names out. Basically their are four different grape colors-black(the original grape color), purple, green and red. No, I am not saying black grapes are like Black people, but like Homo erectis of which archaic modern humans sprang from.Gene mutations produced purple and green grapes. Crossbreeding green grapes with purple grapes produced red grapes.As far as humans go, the black grape would bee akin to Homo erectus. The purple grape would be akin to the Black people and the green grape akin to white people-if you want to, make up grape colors for any other ethnicity. The fact is, green grapes are genetically different from purple grapes-yes they carry most of the same genetic material, but the differences are what makes them different.You can not say green grapes are descendant from purple grapes-akin to you saying White people are descendant from Blacks.They are not, but BOTH Black and White people are divergent off of Homo erectus.As for humans descendant from apes or monkeys, Darwin’s theory of evolution does NOT state that, but that apes, monkeys and humans have a common ancestor. Fully modern humans, sub species Homo sapien sapiens appeared around 50,000-100,000 years ago, but has not be ascertained whether before or after, leaving Africa.
I, personally, still believe in the old theory that the origuns of the different ethnicities occurred at the same time in different locations and this better reflects the isolated genetic characteisics of the ethnicities with some overlappimg as they mixed.
links on ethnic origins:
An article on ethnic divisions:
http://www.redorbit.com/news/science/10801/herto_fossils_clarify_modern_human_origins/
Click to access ancient.skulls.nytimes.pdf
http://cogweb.ucla.edu/ep/Paleoanthropology.html#Archaic%20Homo%20Sapies
http://anthro.palomar.edu/homo2/mod_homo_4.htm
The Badarians appear to be a mix of Black(Nubian, some Nilotic) and Arab Semitic White. Those tribes indicate the Arabs were in Egypt even earlier than 5000 B.C. by admixture with the Black Africans.
http://racialreality.110mb.com/egypt_nubia.html
June 19, 2009 at 11:13 pm
According to the first link nature its says: “But all those species are real for the Out-of-Africa school, and most of them are dead-ends. Java Man, Peking Man and the Neandertals arose, flourished and died out without leaving any descendants. The Out-of-Africa school contends that modern humans (H. sapiens) are descended uniquely from African H. heidelbergensis and spread around the globe, replacing the various archaic species that preceded them in different places”. THEN IT SAYS :”The skull of Homo sapiens idaltu has placed modern human origins in Africa 160,000 years BP” SO I LOOK AT THIS LINK: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens WHICH SAYS: DNA and fossil evidence indicates that modern humans originated in east Africa about 200,000 years ago. SO THEN I LOOK UP: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homo_sapiens_idaltu WHICH SAYS THIS:The fossilized remains of H. s. idaltu were discovered at Herto Bouri in the Middle Awash site of Ethiopia’s Afar Triangle in 1997 by Tim White, but were first unveiled in 2003. Herto Bouri is a region of Ethiopia under volcanic layers. By using radioisotope dating, the layers date between 154,000 and 160,000 years old. Three well preserved crania are accounted for, the best preserved being from an adult male (BOU-VP-16/1) having a brain capacity of 1450 cm3 (compared to average modern human adult male brain size of around 1260 cm3). The other crania include another partial adult male and a six year old child. THEN I LOOK UP CROMAGNON; http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cro-Magnon WHICH SAID THIS; Cro-Magnon (pronounced /kroʊˈmæɡnən/, French [kʀomaɲɔ̃]) is one of the main types of anatomically modern humans of the European Upper Paleolithic, the term being used for fossil specimens dated approximately 40,000 to 10,000 years ago. It is named after the cave of Crô-Magnon in southwest France, where the first specimen was found. MY CONCLUSION; IDALTU(160,000 OR 200,000 YRS AGO) WAS HERE BEFORE CRO-MAGNON (40,000 TO 10,000 YRS AGO). SO WHERE DID CRO-MAGNON ORIGINATE? WHO WAS HIS PARENTS? HAPLOGROUP A WAS PRESENT BEFORE CRO-MAG. AGAIN THE KHOISAN PEOPLE AND ETHIOPIANS. HOWEVER NOTICE THAT THE IDALTU WERE FOUND IN ETHIOPIA. AGAIN BLACK PEOPLE. EVEN IF YOU SAY THAT CRO-MAG WAS CAUCASIOD(WHICH I DISAGREE WITH) THE BLACK PEOPLE WERE STILL HERE BEFORE? CRO-MAG DIDN’T JUST DROP OUT THE SKIES HE CAME FROM THE DROPS THAT FERTILIZED AND WAS BORN FROM A BLACKWOMANS THIGHS.
June 20, 2009 at 4:36 am
I will grant you this point-the data I had seen was outdated. Apparently, Idaltu was the only Homo sapiens found in Africa.By genetic inference, Cro Magnon can only be inferred to have originate in North Africa as the highest concentrations are in Europe closest to Africa and thins out from there.The range of Cromagnon is 40,000-10,000 ago. Fully Modern humans left Africa between 100,000-60,000 year ago. No Cro Magnon skeletons have been found to date in Africa, which leaves an anamoly, I could only speculate at and could find no uinformation. That is, what happened in the 20,000-60,000 year gap since Cro Magnon left or originated in Africa.Additionally, the original indigenous Maghreb people were classified as Aboriginal Caucasoid(White/resembling White). They now generally consider themselves Arab Semitic White, but there is a high admixture of Black and Indo European White in them also.A very diverse ethnicity.The following are some links for you to examine. As I explained earlier, Idaltu and Cro Magnon were never assigned ethnicities, but judge for yourself from forensic artistic reconstructions in the links:
Cro Magnon Images
http://www.experiencefestival.com/a/Cro-Magnon_man/id/2027128
Idaltu Images
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/object/article?f=/c/a/2003/06/12/MN302778.DTL&o=1
Homo erectus was the last species to be the first considered HUMAN. Cro Magnon and Idaltu are descended from this species:
http://news.softpedia.com/news/Top-10-Extinct-Humans-62131.shtml
June 20, 2009 at 9:48 pm
About that second link from mathilda’s site. If it is the one that i am thinking of. They said it was a fraud. http://www.amnation.com/vfr/archives/013143.html
June 21, 2009 at 1:02 am
NATURE YOU SAID THEY IDALTU AND CROMAGNON WERE’NT ASSIGNED ETHINICIES HOWEVER DIDN’T YOU SAY:as I mentioned earlier, two forms of Homo sapiens existed in Africa about the same time-Cro Magnon(Caucasoid characteristics) and Idaltu(Negroid characteristics) NOW WHAT HAVE YOU JUST DONE? HOWEVER I WANT TO TOUCH ON THE BARDARIAN LINKS YOU POSTED. I noticed this article quotes heavily from coons 1939 ” The races of europe” HE SAYS:The Badarian skulls are more prognathous than those of their successors, and have higher nasal indices. … In fact, while the prognathism and nose form would suggest a negroid tendency, this cannot be established, since the hair form is definitely not negroid. …HE HAS A HARD TIME ADMITTING THEY ARE NEGRO/BLACK DUE TO THE HAIR? THE HE QUOTES MORANT:Morant shows that the Badarian cranial type is closely similar to that of some of the modern Christians of northern Ethiopia—who incidentally do not show negroid characteristics in the skull—and also to the crania of Dravidian-speaking peoples of southern India. OK SO HERE WE HAVE BADARIANS WITH NEGROID TENDENCY NASAL AND PROGNATHISM, WITH CRAINIAL TYPES LIKE SOME MODERN ETHIOPIANS WHO DON’T SHOW NEGROID SKULL FEATURES? SO NOW HES GOING TO SUGGEST:On the basis of these racial comparisons, it seems reasonable to suggest that this Badarian physical type may have come from the south, near the headwaters of the Blue Nile. NOW THIS IS DEFIINITLY SUB SAHARA AFRICA FROM WHICH THE SO-CALLED TRUE NEGRO IS LOCATED. SO HE SAYS:It may represent an early Hamitic(SUB SPECIES OF CAUCASIAN) racial strain, which persists despite some negroid admixture in Ethiopia and Somaliland to the present day. BY READING THIS YOU CAN TELL HES IS FROM THE SCIENTIFIC RASCIST MIND THAT SAYS”Although the peoples of africa…had little contact with, or influence on, other parts of the world…” And “anything of civilization had to have come about by some great white race or some sub species of black white people because true negroes were heathens and savages incapable of such greatness”. AND TO TOP IT OFF HE CONCLUDES:”The pigmentation of the Egyptians was usually a brunet white; WHAT THE HELLS IS A BRUNET(DARK) WHITE(LIGHT)? HE USES A HAIR COLOR INSTEAD OF SAYING BROWN SKIN. DON’T GET ME WRONG YOU CAN MIX BROWN AND WHITE TOGETHER AND GET LIGHT SKIN MULATTOS. HOWEVER THE DEPICTION OF THE KEMETIANS/EGYPTIANS ARE NOT A BUNCH OF MULATTOS NOR WHITE. AGAIN THEY VARIE IN COMPLEXION FROM BLACK (WHICH YOU CALL THOSE NUBIANS I DISAGREE ) BROWN TO LIGHT BROWN, TO THE YELLOW COMPLEXION(MULLATO) POSSIBLY. THEN YOU HAVE THE TAMAHU AND AMU(MIGRANTS TO KEMET/EGYPT. THE TAMAHU DWELLS IN THE DESERTS. AMU FROM THE NEAR EAST. HOWEVER THE ORIGINAL INHABITANTS ARE FROM THE UPPER NILE VALLEY AS COONS WOULD SAY ABOUT THE SOURCE OF THE BADARIANS THE HEAD WATERS OF THE BLUE NILE. AND YOU REFUSE TO CALL THEM WHAT THEY ARE BLACK PEOPLE. May be the word black is the problem because of all the negative connotations that have been propagate by the White rascist people who have used it to denigrate black people in america and africa for 5 centurys. Even to the point of effecting there own white childern to concluded the same. So that they refuse to see what is very evident, that the people that are called black in america today are the people that they will call white black people or caucasiods in other countries. Even in africa. It use to be that if you were black in america and your ancestory were from africa then you were black. Now even in africa you can be black but not be considered black. I must say it is not a pretty sight what groups of White people have perpetrated and how it has effected the world. This racsist mentality has affected the vary branches of science to this very day.
June 21, 2009 at 1:13 am
And here you go with the classification.YOU SAY; Additionally, the original indigenous Maghreb people were classified as Aboriginal Caucasoid(White/resembling White). They now generally consider themselves Arab Semitic White, WHO CLASSIFIED THEM AS SUCH. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT THE AMAZIGNS? THEY DEFINITELY DON’T LIKE TO BE CALLED ARAB.
June 22, 2009 at 6:45 pm
I am NOT familiar with the term AMAZIGNS:
“Maghrebis people are inhabitants of the Maghreb; it includes Algerians, Moroccans, Tunisians and Libyans. Maghrebis people are largely of Berber descent with Arab, Phoenician, European etc elements. A majority of the current population in the Maghreb consider themselves generally Arab in identity but of Berber descent and origin, regardless of mixed ethnic or linguistic heritage. However, there are significant non-Arab or non-Arab-identifying populations in the region.” – Wikipedia: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maghreb
View the links I gave you and see for yourself, the characteristics of Cro Magnon(even if you consider mathilda’s reconstruction a fraud, the other link as well as many other reconstructions present the same conclusion) and Idaltu.
The Badarians are a mixed group as are many Ethiopians and Somalis–their countries are 1/3 Arab(northern half)-you refuse to accept Arabs are Semitic White and anyone stating so must be racist towards Blacks-you have yet to prove to me J1 is NOT an Arab haplomarker-also Arabs have the haplomarkers of Caucasians, not Blacks-other Semitic White haplomarkers-certain E subclades, F and V:
Caucasoid-E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group- C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid- A, B , E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badarian
Here are some other helpful links:
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~chilvers/Origins.htm
http://sci.tech-archive.net/Archive/sci.archaeology/2009-05/msg00027.html
http://www.absoluteastronomy.com/topics/Mungo_Man
http://forums.skadi.net/showthread.php?t=41523
July 5, 2009 at 6:58 pm
El back. I had a nice vacation. Im sorry nature the correct spelling was AMAZIGH These are the so-called berbers you are refering to. Ånd they DO NOT consider themselves arabs check link; http://phoenicia.org/berber.html SO WHO CLASSIFIED THEM AS SUCH?
July 5, 2009 at 6:58 pm
El back. I had a nice vacation. Im sorry nature the correct spelling was AMAZIGH These are the so-called berbers you are refering to. Ånd they DO NOT consider themselves arabs check link; http://phoenicia.org/berber.html SO WHO CLASSIFIED THEM AS SUCH?
July 5, 2009 at 7:25 pm
Hey nature the second link says MAKE YOUR MONITOR COME ALIVE. WHATS THAT HAVE TO DO WITH HAPLOMAKERS? THE THIRD LINK SAYS: All current Y-chromosomes in modern Man come from this new African group, called in some literature “Y-chromosomal Adam” – nothing to do with the Bible except in a literary sense. There had been earlier hominids, they just became extinct which provides a cautionary thought! NOW I DON’T THINK I HAVE TO REMIND YOU THAT Y CHROMOSOMAL ADAM IS HAPLOGROUP A. WHICH IN YOUR OWN POST YOU DESCRIBED AS NEGROID. So that pretty much proves the point. all people present today descend from black (haplogroup A) people.
July 5, 2009 at 8:00 pm
NOW YOUR LAST LINK NATURE IF YOU READ FURTHER SAID:The Cro-Magnons could be descended from any number of subspecies of Homo sapiens that emerged from Africa approximately 100,000 years ago, such as Homo sapiens idaltu. WHICH WERE MY CONCLUSIONS EXACTLY. REFER TO PREVIOUS POST. The second to the last link mungo man..your point being? And the other link before it…well lest just say what point are you trying to prove by linking me to these seemingly irrelavent issues. WHICH I MUST SAY FURTHER BOLSTERS MY CONCLUSIONS NOT YOURS. NO DISREPECT TO YOUR INTELLECTUAL CAPACITY NATURE, BUT YOUR ARGUEMENTS ARE BECOMING VERY WEAK AND ARE PRODUCING MORE OF A ANNOYNANCE TO ME THEN A COHERENT PRESENTATION OF FACTS. NOR HAVE YOU DEALT WITH THESE LINKS SENTENCE BY SENTENCE WITH ME AS I HAVE SUGGESTED. LEADING ME TO TRY TO DECIPHER JUST WHAT FACTS YOU ARE PRESENTING TO ARGUE YOU POINT. I DON’T HAVE TIME TO ATTEMPT TO DRAW FROM THESE LINKS YOUR CONCLUSION. JUST POINT ME TO THE SENTENCES THAT PROVE YOUR POSITION.
July 5, 2009 at 8:22 pm
LINK ME TO THIS INFORMATION THAT YOU KEEP POSTING NATURE:ETHNIC HAPLOMARKERS
Caucasoid-E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group- C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid- A, B ,E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks AND LETS TAKE IT SENTENCE BY SENTENCE.
July 5, 2009 at 10:24 pm
Hope you had a nice vacation.Sorry, but I will not do your homework- no offence is intended- what ever haplogroup you want to look up , type in haplogroup “specify letter” in the browser, hit enter- I usually go with wikipedia’s, but confirm it with other articles- I will admit-names have changed, new subclades have been found, different sources list them differently- I have fitted them in by what seemed to be majority classification.When you have done your homework, then we can discuss this further. Add to your list, YOU still haven’t proven to me that J1 is NOT an Arab haplomarker. I have presented you with evidence that it is.
Idaltu has NEVER been classified as Negroid, but it is my opinion ONLY that Idaltu has Negroid features from all the reconstructions I have seen. Cro Magnon has NEVER been classified as Caucasoid, but has Caucasoid features. A good example of what Idaltu(Y chromosomal Adam-considered by most) might of looked like is Ronnie Coleman. A good example of what Cro Magnon would have looked like is Arnold Schwarzenegger. I have already admitted NO evidence of CroMagnon has been found in Africa, nor between 40-60,000 years AFTER leaving Africa-I could find nothing to explain this discrepancy.
Berbers(AMAZIGH) are a mix of Black, Arab Semitic White, and now Indo European Aryan White-I have stated this much:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Berber_people
http://www.plosgenetics.org/article/info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1000052
I could only find two reconstruction of Mitochondrial eve- one she has Negroid features and the other Mongoloid features.
Incidental, the Asiatic M1 subclade is older than any M subclade so far found in Africa. This indicates either the out of Africa theory is NOT correct or there was genetic backflow of which there is no evidence thus far.:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_M_(mtDNA)
The linkk with the screensaver was an error and has been removed.
I am still of the belief of the old theory that 5 ethnicities started at different points with some overlapping as cultures came in contact with each other.
July 12, 2009 at 10:19 pm
NATURE YOU POSTED LINKS THAT DID NOT SAY WHAT YOU WERE SAYING; IF SO. LIKE I SAY LINK AND SHOW ME THE SENTENCE SO WE CAN GO SENTENCE BY SENTENCE. BELIEVE ME I HAVE DONE MY HOMEWORK WELL AND I DO KNOW THE HAPLYOGROUPS HOWEVER THEY ARE NOT SAYING WHAT YOU ARE SAYING. SO I WILL GIVE YOU A LITTLE MORE TIME TO COME UP WITH YOUR LINK FOR EACH OF THESE STATEMENTS YOU POSTED SO BOLDLY IN YOU INTRO TO YOUR BLOG. IF YOU CAN’T PRODUCE IT I WILL HAVE TO ASSUME THAT THESE ARE JUST YOUR OWN CONCLUSIONS. Caucasoid-E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group- C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid- A, B ,E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks AND LETS TAKE IT SENTENCE BY SENTENCE.
July 12, 2009 at 10:44 pm
AS FOR THE BADARIANS THE LINKS SAYS AGAIN NATURE; Recent re-analyses of previous studies, including Professor Strouhal’s paper, reveal that only West and South African skulls were included in the baseline for a determination of “true negro” though, while the typically elongated East African skull forms were disregarded, assumed not to indicate true blacks OH HERE WE GO WITH THAT TRUE BLACK BS. BUT ALIAS THEN IT SAYS;Some recent studies additionally suggest a modal metric phentoype in Badarian crania that is much more similar to the Tropical African series than to the various other samples studied LAST BUT NOT LEAST IT END WITH;Strouhal’s work is noted in a 2005 study of the Badari which concluded: “The Badarians show a greater affinity to indigenous Africans while not being identical. This suggests that the Badarians were more affiliated with local and an indigenous African population than with Europeans. MY CONCLUSION FROM THESE PATICULAR SENTENCES FROM THE LINK IS THE BADARIANS WERE A BLACK AFRICAN POPULATIONS WITH VARIOUS BLACK CHARACTERISTICS. PERIOD. AGAIN REINFORCING THE HISTORICAL AND GENETIC AND ARCHEOLOGICAL FACTS THAT THE ORIGINAL KEMETIANS/EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK.
July 13, 2009 at 4:40 am
El, the Ancient Egyptians were NOT Black, but the Kemetians/Nubians were-your contention is , the Ancient Egyptians and Kemetians/Nubians are one and the same. Near the beginning, your own evidence showed exactly what I had been saying all a long-Northern(Lower) Egypt is White(mostly Arab Semitic) and Suthern(Upper Egypt, is mostly Black(mostly Nibian, some Nilotic) -evidently either you refuse to acknowledge Arabs are Semitic White or you consider them Black or you consider the Nubians to be Arabs-none of which is true as I have repeatedly shown. By the way, you still have NOT shown me the J1 haplomarker is not Arab, is not Semitic White, ans is Black.
The Badarians were NOT pure Black ,BUT MIXED: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badari
I have neither the time,energy, expertise, or inclination to write a genetics book. let’s compromise-choose the haplogroup that confuses you and look it up in wikipedia-I have actually found them to be quite reliable. Pick a few other sources, and we can discuss them from there. None of the groups I have posted are my opinion, but have been chosen based upon what the majority of the experts have concluded. Sorry, but please, take the time to look them up yourself, as I have. The literature is mountainous, and, even the terminology is not yet standardized.
July 14, 2009 at 12:11 am
First of all nature less be clear and concise when we speak about blacks as oppose to whites. The ancient egyptians characterized themselves on the walls of the temples and tombs as a people fitting the characteristic of blacks. When i say black i mean the same terms and descriptions as blacks in america are described as or black people throughout the world. There is no way you can call them white period. The only white people you will find on the temples and tombs of egypt are foreigners such as the amu. Never are the Amu describe as being egyptians. whether you like it or not. And again as i have already proved to you nature that the people of egypt called their land kemet. Nubia was called ta seti. which were two distinct geographical locations along the nile valley. that would be like calling kush egypt. Or france spain. Genetically speaking i have showed you that the majority of the present people who occupy the land known as egypt today that was called kemet in the ancient times, are haplogroup E which is a african genetic group not a arabian born haplogroup. So there can be no way that ancient egyptians were white arabs. The present arabic lanquage spoken today wasn’t even spoken in ancient egypt/kemet. So your white semitic arab is a more recent population group. Where as the blackpeople occupied these lands of egypt/kemet prior to the first dynasty period.
July 14, 2009 at 12:29 am
AGAIN FROM THE LINK YOU POSTED ABOUT THE BADARIANS:The Badarians show a greater affinity to indigenous Africans while not being identical. This suggests that the Badarians were more affiliated with local and an indigenous African population than with Europeans. THE FACT THAT HE SAYS;The Badarians show a greater affinity to indigenous Africans while not being identical. DEMONSTRATES HIS ACCEPTANCE THAT THEY ARE NOT WHITE PEOPLE OR WHITE ARABS AS YOU WOULD HAVE IT. THE FACT THAT HE SAYS;a greater affinity to indigenous Africans while not being identical. DEMONSTRATES THAT HE WANTS TO CALLED AFRICAN SOMETHING OTHER THEN BLACK OR WHAT THEY WOULD LIKE TO CLASSIFY AS TRUE BLACK. HOWEVER KNOWING THAT AFRICANS HAVE THE HIGHEST GENETIC DIVERSITY AS THE ESTEEMED GENETISIST S.O.Y. KEITA PUTS IT, WOULD NOT CLASSIFY THESE PEOPLE AS ANYTHING OTHER THAN BLACK AFRICANS PERIOD.
July 14, 2009 at 12:39 am
As for the haplogroups nature, i have done a through study on this subject matter, including the links you have posted. And have not found the classifications that you have placed apon them. They are classified as African, european, arabian, eurasian, asian. But never caucasiod or negroid or mongoloid as you have put it. However if i am in error then prove it by posting the sentences along with the links were you have gotten this information from. If not i will have to assume you are attempting to label these haplogroups as such on your own. And i will disregard such classification that you used. As for your j1 arab haplomarker again i will say that j1 does not make you black or white. And i have never seen it describe as a white haplogroup. If i am in error produce your proof. For you still have not done such. Unless i missed it in one of your post.
July 20, 2009 at 1:07 pm
IM SORRY NATURE THIS POSTED BACK TO MAY. BUT I WAS REPLYING TO YOUR PRESENT COMMENT ABOUT THE BADARIANS. AS FOR THE BADARIANS;while the typically elongated East African skull forms were disregarded, assumed not to indicate true blacks. THEY DIDN’T EVEN INCLUDE THEM BECAUSE THEY WERERN’T CLASSIFIED AS TRUE BLACKS? SUCH A BIAS STUDY WON’T REVEAL THE FACTS. AND THIS STUDY WAS DONE IN 1920′S.The usual result was that the Badarians were African hybrids.THIS IS YOUR MIXTURE OF RACES RIGHT. HOWEVER THE MORE RECENT STUDY SAYS:Some recent studies additionally suggest a modal metric phentoype in Badarian crania that is much more similar to the Tropical African series than to the various other samples studied.MORE SIMILAR TO THE TROPICAL AFRICAN SERIES? JUST WHAT IS THE TROPICAL AFRICAN SERIES NATURE? TO TOP IT OFF FROM THE REFERENCE OF THE LINK “EARLY NILE VALLEY FARMERS FROM EL BADARI” S.O.Y. KEITA SAYS “The Badarian series clusters with the tropical African groups no matter which algorithmis employed(seeFigures3and4). SO I SAY AGAIN NATURE WHAT IS THE TROPICAL AFRICAN? ARE THEY A MIXTURE OF RACES? I DON’T THINK SO.
July 20, 2009 at 3:38 pm
Self-explanatory-Nubia is a separate country from Egypt-the Arab invaders drove most of the Black population out, and as I mentioned before, assimilated some by marriage/rape/consensual matings.
Although neither of us is completely accurate on the Badaria , my answer is MORE accurate-apparently, genetically the Badari are a mixed hybrid group of Mongoloid, Caucasoid(both Semitic and Indo European Aryan White), and Negroid-depending on the sampling of the individual certain ethnic percentages dominate, Negroid percentages being the one to dominate the most often, followed by the Caucasoid, then small amounts of Mongoloid elements-yes, as I said before, the Negroid element dominates most in Southern(Upper), this of course being closer to Nubia/Sudan/Kemet(remember lower southwest part of Egypt was part of Nubia). Because they have a Mongoloid component, they can not be classified as Mulatto.
http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/bio.htm
http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/anthro.htm
http://wysinger.homestead.com/badarians.html
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Methodological+Problems+in+Identifying+Ancient+Nile+Valley+Populations-a01073868681
I am still waiting on your revised haplomarker chart and evidence that J1 is NOT an Arab Marker as I have proven it is.
July 20, 2009 at 11:17 pm
The badarians are from southern kemet/egypt. Exactly what did you say about the southern populations? YOU SAID THIS;the Negroid element dominates most in Southern(Upper), this of course being closer to Nubia/Sudan/Kemet(remember lower southwest part of Egypt was part of Nubia).AND WHAT WOULD THAT MAKE THE BADARIAN. Prior to the 1st dynasty nature whites were only in the delta regions in small scale. And they were not the egyptians/ kemetians. Again i ask you what is tropical african? This what they say the badarians have affinities to. AND EXACTLY HOW COULD THE FOREIGNERS YOUR SO CALLED WHITE SEMITIC ARABS BE THE EGYPTIANS AND THE ORIGINAL BLACK INHABITANTS NOT BE?
July 20, 2009 at 11:35 pm
YOU SAY; I am still waiting on your revised haplomarker chart and evidence that J1 is NOT an Arab Marker as I have proven it is. WHO SAID ANYTHING ABOUT A REVISED HAPLOMARKER CHART? I AM WAITING ON THE SOURCE OF YOUR INFORMATION THAT CLASSIFIEDS THESE HAPLOMAKERS AS CAUCASIOD, MONGOLOID, NEGROID. WHAT DETERMINES J1 BEING A ARAB MARKER?
July 20, 2009 at 11:40 pm
WHEN DID THE ARABS INVADE AND DROVE OUT THE BLACK INHABITANTS?
July 21, 2009 at 9:00 am
El, 5000 B.C.. I never said Arab Semitic Whites were the first peoples there, just that they, not the Black Nubians, were the Ancient Egyptians, and, as I have repeatedly stated, there was, and, is, plenty of mixing, forced, and, consensual-Rhamses II was known to have sired over 100 children with DIFFERENT mothers of Black(Nubian) and White(Arab Semitic and Indo European Aryan-Greek, Indian(from India), Persian/Iranian, Roman, Turkish), and Asian.
You did not accept mine .I mentioned you could look them up and provide a better one if you could. I had provided several links earlier with experts explaining the J1 marker as an Arab marker-your contention was Blacks were the peoples called Arabs-they are NOT and Blacks do NOT have the J1 marker unless they are really mixed. Again, Blacks and Arab Semitic White are GENETICALLY, two different ethnicities-EVEN IF YOU INSIST ARABS ARE NOT WHITE-neither are Arabs Black.
Read the answer AGAIN-I said MOST-honestly, I can not find any data on how long it took, but as I have stated, Egypt is STILL 30% Black and Black mixes-read the article again for a refresher.
Did you not read the links I provided showing the Badari are a mixed HYBRID of peoples of Black, White(BOTH Arab Semitic and/or Indo European Aryan), and small amounts of Asian(Mongoloid). Features vary with the predominating ethnic heritage being in the afore mentioned order-again going along with what I have stated in the beginning, and, has YOUR own evidence shows-Northern(Lower) Egypt is primarily Arab Semitic White, and, moving further South,towards Sudan-Nubia-Kemet(population 50 % Arab-50 % Black-part of Arab North Africa), Ehiopia(1/3 Arab-2/3 Black), and, Somalia(1/3 Arab-2/3 Black).
July 21, 2009 at 2:46 pm
5000 b.c. you say nature? These white asians did not occupy any place in kemet/egypt then. they came later. And they occupied only a small portions of the delta with the indigenous inhabitants prior to the dynastic period. They were not allowed to go futher. So there was no major white semitic arab invasion during this time. If so where is your proof. Non the less again i ask you HOW DOES A FOREIGN ELEMENT TAKE PRIMACY OVER THE INDIGENOUS POPULATION TO BE CALLED EGYPTIANS BY YOU. AND THE BLACK INHABITANTS ARE NOT CONSIDERED EGYPTIAN? That doesn’t make any sense. And there is the error of you premise. AGAIN AS FOR THE BADARIANS THE MIXED STATMENT WAS MADE IN THE 1920’S AND 1971. HOWEVER LATER STUDIES AS IT SAYS SHOWS THEM MORE AFFINITY TO THE AFRICAN TROPICAL TYPE. SO AGAIN I ASK YOU WHAT IS THE TROPICAL AFRICAN TYPE?
July 21, 2009 at 2:51 pm
As for the arabs. I say this as well as the save the true arabs say. The original arabs are a black people. However now they are a mixture of black, white, etc. So arabs can be any complexion now. And i am not talking about nationality.
July 21, 2009 at 6:06 pm
Genetics does NOT lie. Arab Semitic Whites and Blacks are two different ethnicities and DNA testing shows the majority of the Ancient Egyptian mummies are Arab Semitic White-small amounts of Nubians, smaller amounts of all other ethnic groups-see the links in the articles and earlier discussion we have had.What you are basically saying is Blacks are White which can not be true-genetics-two different ethnicgroups.
First, AGAIN, you keep saying White Asians-yes, technically part of the Middle East(once called Near East) is in Asia and Arabs are White so they could be labeled White Asians. Part of the Middle East(North Africa-1/3 of Africa) is in North Africa-again, Arabs can be called White Africans, but Arabs are neither Oriental Asians,, nor, Black Africans. We have been over this point repeatedly now-ask any of your Black(especially the Nubians living in Egypt-I have 4 such friends and they get offended if you call them Arabs and neither do they call themselves Arabs-they do consider themselves Egyptians-same as Mostafa Hefny in our earlier discussions). friends and relatives if they consider themselves Arab, do the same with your Oriental friends, then ask some TRUE Arabs if they consider themselves Black. As for the Bandari, they are mixed as genetic testing shows in the links I provided. When Black heritage drops below 25%, anthropological measurements lose meaning, as many can easily pass for White.The late Michael Jackson is a good example of an artificially induced White transformation. Even if he had his original skin color back, you could not tell he was Black unless you examined his dention(teeth)-in mixed this would even be difficult below 25% Black heritage.Read your statement closely-” HOWEVER LATER STUDIES AS IT SAYS SHOWS THEM MORE AFFINITY TO THE AFRICAN TROPICAL TYPE.”. Simply, there is a higher percentage of Black heritage in some individuals than others.Let’s use President Obama(greater affinity for Tropical Black) because he is very familiar and compare him to the late Idi Amin(True Tropical Black). Now compare them both to James Watson(less than 25% Black-16% Black, 9% Asian(Oriental), and 73% White: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/science/article3022190.ece ) , DNA researcher, and Sally Hemings, (3/4 White, 1/4 Black), Thomas Jefferson’s Mulatto,not, Black mistress, a popular misconception. Can you see the difference? If you can not, than I have gone as far as I can with this discussion.
July 24, 2009 at 12:56 am
YOU SAY; First, AGAIN, you keep saying White Asians-yes, technically part of the Middle East(once called Near East) is in Asia and Arabs are White so they could be labeled White Asians. Part of the Middle East(North Africa-1/3 of Africa) is in North Africa-again, Arabs can be called White Africans, but Arabs are neither Oriental Asians,, nor, Black Africans. NOR ARE THEY WHITE EUROPEANS WHICH WE CLASSIFIY AS TRUE WHITE PEOPLE NATURE. HOW EVER WE DO NOT CLASSIFY LIGHT SKIN ARABS AS WHITE UNLESS THEY HAVE WHITE EUROPEAN HERITAGE. NOR DO WE CLASSIFY CHINESE OR JAPANESE OR INDIANS AS WHITES. SO WHEN I SAY WHITE ASIANS I AM NOT TALKING ABOUT EUROPEANS. HOWEVER SOME COULD HAVE BEEN LIGHT SKIN OR OF VARIOUS SHADES OF SKIN COMPLEXIONS. BUT THEY STILL WOULD BE THE FOREIGN ELEMENTS AND NOT THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS/KEMETIANS THEMSELVES.
July 24, 2009 at 1:15 am
El, for some one whom seems intelligent, your reasoning is flawed-ethnicity is based on anthropological measurements, and, more recently, genetics-Arabs have NO Black haplomarkers and have all the Caucasian haplomarkers, plus a few more(see chart), which separates them from the Indo European Aryan Whites making them Arab Semitic White. Arab features are different than Black features. Even the old South with their one-drop rule, saw Blacks and Arabs different, although both as non White. Darker skin does not make a person non White, nor Black, unless you want to call al dark skinned people as Black, which seems to be what you are saying, Please, now present me with YOUR version of the haplomarker chart, and, supporting evidence that the J1 marker is NOT an Arab haplomarker-you have been ignoreing this one key piece of evidence that would prove to you Arabs are NOT Black,since Blacks do not have it as well as all the other Caucasian markers, Arabs have. Now I will ask you one simple assignment-find what haplomarkers Arabs have and what haplomarkers Blacks have-doing so, of course, will be proving your own premise wrong.Also, you glossed over the fact that Asian(oriental) M1 haplomarker is OLDER than any of the M subclade markers found in Africa, which, in layperson’s terms indicates a source not originating in Africa. The Nubians were NOT the Ancient Egyptians, The Arab Semitic Whites were.
July 24, 2009 at 3:11 am
J1 m267 Y lineage marks climate driven pre-history human displacements European Journal of human genetics 15 april 2009. Recent article states this” Furthermore, J1 Str motifs previously used to trace Arab or jewish ancestries were shown unsuitable as diagnostic MARKERS FOR ETHNICITY”. NOW I REALLY DON’T KNOW THE IMPLICATIONS OF THIS REPORT, HOWEVER I WOULD DEFINITLY LIKE TO FIND OUT. HOPEFULLY WE WILL FIND OUT MORE SOON:http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19367321?log$=activity
July 24, 2009 at 5:22 am
El, genetic link on Egyptian mummies and Modern Egyptians:
Click to access 32.1keita.pdf
No offense, but lately, you seem to not read my links-this would save much backtracking if you would.I dop always review YOUR links.
PRIOR ANSWERBadari
Self-explanatory-Nubia is a separate country from Egypt-the Arab invaders drove most of the Black population out, and as I mentioned before, assimilated some by marriage/rape/consensual matings.
Although neither of us is completely accurate on the Badaria , my answer is MORE accurate-apparently, genetically the Badari are a mixed hybrid group of Mongoloid, Caucasoid(both Semitic and Indo European Aryan White), and Negroid-depending on the sampling of the individual certain ethnic percentages dominate, Negroid percentages being the one to dominate the most often, followed by the Caucasoid, then small amounts of Mongoloid elements-yes, as I said before, the Negroid element dominates most in Southern(Upper), this of course being closer to Nubia/Sudan/Kemet(remember lower southwest part of Egypt was part of Nubia). Because they have a Mongoloid component, they can not be classified as Mulatto.
http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/bio.htm
http://asiapacificuniverse.com/pkm/anthro.htm
http://wysinger.homestead.com/badarians.html
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Methodological+Problems+in+Identifying+Ancient+Nile+Valley+Populations-a01073868681
I am still waiting on your revised haplomarker chart and evidence that J1 is NOT an Arab Marker as I have proven it is.
Your own answer just contradicteed the expert quote you gave:
“THERE IS NOT TRUE NEGRO OR AFRICAN MODEL AS YOU ERRONEOUSLY HAVE STATED DUE TO THE FACT THAT “Simplistic “race percentage” models are dubious in Africa which has the highest genetic diversity in the world.”
“This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant Africans populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions.” (S.O.Y> Keita, Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial” variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. j. Hum. Biol. 16:679-689, 2004.)
phenotypically(outward appearance)-DEFINITION
a. The observable physical or biochemical characteristics of an organism, as determined by both genetic makeup and environmental influences.
b. The expression of a specific trait, such as stature or blood type, based on genetic and environmental influences.
The Northern 1/3 of Somali and Ethiopia and the northern 1/2 of Sudan(part of Arab North Africa-1/3 of Africa) is Arab. Mixing gives these peoples a more Caucasian look, beyond any genetic diversity-Lila Kebede, the late Anwar Sadat, and Arab on Soul train all have Arab Semitic White fathers and Black mothers.You can say all you want about variation, but most people can tell a Black person from an Arab, all bigotry aside. You, yourself, admitted Jamie Farr, Arab american, did NOT look like the same ethnic group as Black American, Bill Cosby-so why do you keep insisting the two are one and the same. The lower soouthwestern corner of Egypt is Black people-the Nubians-Egypt annexed it in 1521 B.C.. Please, do yourself a favor, and, read the article and our answers again-my answers are getting very repetitious. None of my Black friends from Africa and the US consider themselves Arabs(4 from Sudan). I am of Arab ancestry myself, and do not consider myself Black, neither do any others of my ethnic background.
The discrepancy they speak of is the age of J1. It may be older than once thought. Also, it was found in parts of Europe and to be older than the Indo European Aryan White haplomarkers. It is not that hard to explain-Southwest Asia is part of the Arab Middle East-J1 could have easily made an appearance in South East Asia through Arab/Muslim trade and intermingling. Since J1 predominates in the Middle East more so than in South East Asia, I would be very surprised to find the flow from South East into South West Asia(Middle East).The predominate belief is still it is an Arab haplomarker. As I mentioned, there are other haplomarkers restricted to Arabs. Blacks do NOT have them. Persons with both Black and Arab haplomarker are MIXED, especially true in Egypt, Ethipia, Somalia, and Sudan.
http://www.ethnoancestry.com/J.html
http://wapedia.mobi/en/Haplogroup_IJ_(Y-DNA)
http://www.bookrags.com/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA)
Click to access AJHG_2006_v78_p202-221.pdf
http://thegeneticatlas.com/study_yonan2008.htm
July 27, 2009 at 9:32 pm
NATURE YOU SAY:El, genetic link on Egyptian mummies and Modern Egyptians:No offense, but lately, you seem to not read my links-this would save much backtracking if you would.I dop always review YOUR links. NOW THE LINK YOU GAVE ME NATURE I HAVE HAD THIS ARTICLE FOR MONTHS. IF THIS IS THE LINK YOU ARE REFERING TO. WHAT PARAGRAPH AND SENTENCES ARE YOU POINTING TO. TO PROVE YOU POINT? SORRY WRONG PLACE POSTED
July 27, 2009 at 11:38 pm
NATURE THIS QUOTE IS FROM YOU 1ST LINK;Egypt was
> basically a mixed population with tropical Africans of
> the primarily the Nubian type dominating in the South, and
> a “northern coastal type” (Saharan) resembling the Semites found in
> Northern Egypt.Both types crossed over to form large minorities in
> the other region, and their was significant racial intermixture. NOW THIS INTERMIXING CAME LATER THEN THE BADARIANS. GOING ON IT SAYS What they don’t mention is that the Badari, early Naqada
and Kerma series possess “blurred margin, platyrrhinism (broad
nose), and alveolar prognathism,” (Keita, 1990; also Morant
1925, Stoessiger 1927, Anderson 1968, Strouhal 1971, Chamla
1980) and so did the predominant element of the 1st Dynasty Abydos
tombs (Keita 1992, 1993). This agrees with the characteristics
of the modern Nubian and Sudanese population and also with the
ancient Egyptian iconography. These characteristics, combined
with the limb proportions, unjustifiably dismissed by Brace et
al, confirm the views of Diop and Keita that the predynastic,
early dynastic, Nubian and Sudanese populations are/were of
relatively recent tropical African provenance. Egypt is
not in tropical Africa, neither are Nubia or Sudan anymore
tropical than Somalia.
BADARIANS AGREE WITH THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE MODERN NUBIAN AND SUDANESE POPULATION…IF THERE ARE A WHITE TRIBES THERE NATURE PRODUCE IT THEM. CAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE BLACK. AND IT ALSO SAYS Basil Davidson
“That the ancient Egyptians were Black (again, in any variant
you may prefer)–or, as I myself think it is more useful to say,
were African–is a belief which has been denied in Europe since
about 1830, not before. It is a denial, in short, that belongs
to the rise of modern European imperialism…” (Basil Davidson,
reviewing Martin Bernal’s _Black Athena_)
THEN GOES ON TO SAY;Yet in examining the ancient Egyptians, Brace et al. ignore the
fact that the predynastic Egyptian, early dynastic and Nubian
crania all show evidence of tropical adaptation such as broad noses
and long, gracile limbs. Other traits they shared with typical
tropical African types were alveolar prognathism and blurred nasal
margin. (Keita 1992) Such traits have been widely acknowledged in
non-Afrocentric works, albeit sometimes with the opprobrium that
predynastic population were ruled by a “Caucasoid” ruling class. The direct origin of Egyptian dynastic civilization has been traced
to the Nubians, who are closer in phenotype to peoples of
sub-Saharan Africa than anyone in Europe or even to northern
coastal types. Clyde Ahmad Winters states:
FROM SECOND LINK I GOT:So, while the Badari and early Nakada were clearly Africoid in character, even the neolithic Saharan element that came to cast more and more influence on Southern Egypt could also be characterized as African variants. In fact, in most cases, these hetergenous peoples were strongly “Negroid.” (Gabel 1966, Keita 1993). AGAIN FROM SECOND LINK SAYS;….The very fact that narrow noses can be found over practically the entire globe among large populations who are highly variant in other ways should suggest that this is not a good choice for a genetic trait. OH SO MUCH FOR A NARROW NOSE MEANING YOU ARE ADMIXED WITH CAUCASIAN. LINK 3 I GOT:Who Were The Badarians?
The Badarian structure is said to have affinity to the black race . . . Max Toth, Pyramid Prophecies, Destiny Books, (1988): “The oldest ivory figurines found in ancient Egypt were sculpted by the Badari, a Negroid race of the Egyptians”.
ALSO IT SAYS:Dr. Eugen Strouhal Physical Anthropologist was able to take samples of seven of the racially mixed Badarian individuals which were macroscopically curly [spirals of 10-20mm in diameter] or wavy in [25-35 mm]. They were studied microscopically by S. Tittlebacchova from the Institute of Anthropology of the Charles University, who found in five out of seven samples a change in the thickness of the hair in the course of its length, sometimes with simultaneous narrowing of the hair pitch. Strouhal summarized: “The outline of the cross-sections of the hairs was flattened, with indices ranging from 35 to 65. These peculiarities also show the Negroid inference among the Badarians (pre-dynastic Egyptians).” (Journal of African History, 1971). Thus, this is incompatible with the theories that the Negro element only infiltrated into Egypt at a late stage. UH OH SO MUCH FOR YOUR BLACK ONLY NUBIAN RULING EGYPT 25TH DYNASTY THEORY. FOURTH LINK: MATHILDA PASSED ON THAT. FIFTH LINK SAYS;Examines methodological issues in identifying ancient Nile Valley populations using cranial and DNA analysis. Most mainstream scholars now place the peopling og ancient Egypt in its local context, rather than older theories of massive Mediterranean, Middle Eastern or Eurasian invasions or migration. QUOTE “There is now a sufficient body of evidence from modern studies of skeletal remains to indicate that the ancient Egyptians, especially southern Egyptians, exhibited physical characteristics that are within the range of variation for ancient and modern indigenous peoples of the Sahara and tropical Africa.. In general, the inhabitants of Upper Egypt and Nubia had the greatest biological affinity to people of the Sahara and more southerly areas.” (Nancy C. Lovell, ” Egyptians, physical anthropology of,” in Encyclopedia of the Archaeology of Ancient Egypt, ed. Kathryn A. Bard and Steven Blake Shubert, ( London and New York Routledge, 1999) pp 328-332) UH OH SO MUCH FOR YOUR WHITE SEMITIC ARAB PROOF (NEAR EASTERN) OR YOUR EURASIAN THOUGHTS ON THE BADARIANS. NOW WHEN THEY TALK ABOUT SOUTHERN EGYPT MUST I REMIND YOU THAT BADARIANS ARE IN SOUTHERN EGYPT. NOW I DIDN’T FIND ONE GENETIC PROOF THAT WOULD SUBSTANTIATE YOUR CLAIM OF A WHITE SEMITIC ARAB EGYPTIAN. SO IF THIS IS YOUR PROOF I MUST AGAIN STATE THAT THE ORIGINAL EGYPTIANS WERE BLACK AND YOUR WHITE PEOPLE WERE LATER MIGRATIONS INTO THESE BLACK POPULATIONS PERIOD. INCLUDING THE BADARIANS.
July 27, 2009 at 11:55 pm
YOU SAY;The Northern 1/3 of Somali and Ethiopia and the northern 1/2 of Sudan(part of Arab North Africa-1/3 of Africa) is Arab.AS I SAID ABOUT THIS BEFORE NATURE. I HAVEN’T SEEN THIS WHITE 1/3 OR 1/2 WHITE ARAB POPULATIONS. SHOW ME WHERE THEY ALL ARE PLEASE. NOT SAYING THERE AREN’T ANY THERE BUT NOT AS HUGH AS YOU PUT IT. THEN YOU SAID:Mixing gives these peoples a more Caucasian look, beyond any genetic diversity-Lila Kebede,BULLS NATURE. CAUCSIAN LOOK IF YOU MEAN NARROW NOSES AIN’T NECESSARILY SO. BLACK PEOPLE CAN HAVE NOSE FEATURES THAT VARY AND DON’T HAVE TO BE MIXED TO HAVE THEM PERIOD. AND YOU CONTINUED;The lower soouthwestern corner of Egypt is Black people-the Nubians-Egypt annexed it in 1521 B.C..MUST I REMINDED YOU THIS PART THAT YOU CALLED EGYPT WAS APART OF THE ETHIOPIAN EMPIRE PRIOR TO ITS DIVIDING DURING THE 5TH AND THE 6TH DYNASTY AND THE INTERMDIATE PERIOD. THE SOUTHERN(NUBIANS, WAWAT ETC) KINGDOMS WERE BEGINING TO REBEL AGAINST THE AUTHORITY OF THE RULING DYNASTYS DUE TO THE INTERGRATION POLICIES THAT HAVE BEGUN. THE ANNEXING OCCURRED BECAUSE THE GOVERNMENT WAS TRYING TO BRING THESE TERRITORIES BACK INTO THEIR COMMERCIAL CONTROL. THEN YOU SAID:None of my Black friends from Africa and the US consider themselves Arabs(4 from Sudan). NATURE WE ALREADY WENT OVER THIS. THERE ARE BLACK PEOPLE IN THE SUDAN WHO CALL THEMSELVES ARABS DUE TO WHAT EVER REASON. AND I ALREADY SHOWED YOU WHAT THE SAVETHETRUEARABS SAY THEY ARE. AND YOU SAID:The discrepancy they speak of is the age of J1. It may be older than once thought. I HAVE FOUND A SITE THAT GIVES A DATE OF 15,000 FOR HG J. SO THEY STILL CAN’T GET IT RIGHT HUH. DON’T FORGET MY LAST POST ABOUT THE J1M267.
July 28, 2009 at 1:56 am
El,the Ethiopian Empire was an occupying force much like the Ottoman Empire.Both were overthrown by the peoples in the lands they were occupying.Most did NOT live in the lands they occupied. > basically a mixed population with tropical Africans of > the primarily the Nubian type dominating in the South(***UPPER EGYPT*** EMPHASIS MINE)), and > a “northern coastal type” (Saharan) resembling the Semites(***ARAB SEMITIC WHITES*** EMPHASIS MINE) found in > Northern(***LOWER EGYPT*** EMPHASIS MINE) Egypt.Both types crossed over to form large minorities in > the other region, and their was significant racial intermixture(**ADMIXTURE***EMPHASIS MINE). NOW THIS INTERMIXING CAME LATER THEN THE BADARIANS. GOING ON IT SAYS What they don’t mention is that the Badari, early Naqada,and Kerma series possess “blurred margin, platyrrhinism (broad nose), and alveolar prognathism,” (Keita, 1990; also Morant1925, Stoessiger 1927, Anderson 1968, Strouhal 1971, Chamla1980) and so did the predominant element of the 1st Dynasty Abydostombs (Keita 1992, 1993). This agrees with the characteristics of the modern Nubian and Sudanese population and also with theancient Egyptian iconography. These characteristics, combinedwith the limb proportions, unjustifiably dismissed by Brace etal, confirm the views of Diop and Keita that the predynastic, early dynastic, Nubian and Sudanese populations are/were of relatively recent tropical African provenance. Egypt is not in tropical Africa, neither are Nubia or Sudan anymore
tropical than Somalia. BADARIANS AGREE WITH THE CHARACTERISTICS OF THE MODERN NUBIAN AND SUDANESE POPULATION…IF THERE ARE A WHITE TRIBES THERE NATURE PRODUCE IT THEM. CAUSE THESE PEOPLE ARE BLACK. AND IT ALSO SAYS Basil Davidson
THEN GOES ON TO SAY;Yet in examining the ancient Egyptians, Brace et al. ignore the fact that the predynastic Egyptian, early dynastic and Nubian crania all show evidence of tropical adaptation such as broad noses and long, gracile limbs. Other traits they shared with typical tropical African types were alveolar prognathism and blurred nasal margin(*** BLACK TRAITS-NO NARROW, PRONOUNCED NOSES HERE*** EMPHASISA MINE) . (Keita 1992) Such traits have been widely acknowledged in non-Afrocentric works(***FLAT, BROAD NOSES ACCEPTED AS A BLACK TRAIT***EMPHASIS MINE), albeit sometimes with the opprobrium that predynastic population were ruled by a “Caucasoid”(***non Black traits present*** -EMPHASIS MINE) ruling class. The direct origin of Egyptian dynastic civilization has been traced to the Nubians(***SOUTHWESTERN 1/4 of EGYPT-EMPHASIS MINE), who are closer in phenotype to peoples of sub-Saharan Africa(NUBIA-EMPHASIS mine) than anyone in Europe or even to northern coastal types(ARAB SEMITIC WHITES). Clyde Ahmad Winters states: FROM SECOND LINK I GOT:So, while the Badari and early Nakada were clearly Africoid in character, even the neolithic Saharan element that came to cast more and more influence on Southern Egypt(***SOUTHWESTERN CORNER WAS PART OF NUBIA-EMPHASIS MINE) could also be characterized as African variants(SIMILIAR NOT EXACTLY AFRICAN). In fact, in most cases, these hetergenous peoples were strongly “Negroid.” (Gabel 1966, Keita 1993). AGAIN FROM SECOND LINK SAYS;….The very fact that narrow noses can be found over practically the entire globe among large populations who are highly variant in other ways should suggest that this is not a good choice for a genetic trait(a nose in, and, by it self is not, but throw together other features and it is as we discussed earlier). OH SO MUCH FOR A NARROW NOSE MEANING YOU ARE ADMIXED WITH CAUCASIAN(READ MY DESCRIPTION EARLIER-NOT ONLY A NOSE, lips, hair, head stucture, teeth structure, DNA). LINK 3 I GOT:Who Were The Badarians?
First, Tropical Blacks are from the Black Tropical countries-Botswana, Chad,(Its northernmost point isn’t defined by the Tropic of Cancer), Mali, Mauritania, Mozambique, Namibia, Niger, and South Africa
Tropical Arabs are from the Tropical Arab countries- Algeria, Egypt,Western Sahara (claimed by Morocco), and Libya.
As I mentioned before, the Badari are a hybrid.
The Badarian culture seems to have had multiple sources, of which the Western Desert was probably the most influential. Badari culture was probably not restricted to solely the Badari region, because related finds have been made farther to the south at Mahgar Dendera, Armant, Elkab and Nekhen (named Hierakonpolis by the Greeks) and to the east in the Wadi Hammamat.
“Numerous anthropological studies were performed on Badarian crania after two successful excavations conducted in the mid- to late-1920s. The usual result was that the Badarians were African hybrids. Notably in 1971 Physical Anthropologist Eugen Strouhal re-analyzed over a dozen independent scientific studies (a couple of which were his own) performed previously and summarized their results to arrive at a similar conclusion: “mixture of races.” Recent re-analyses of previous studies, including Professor Strouhal’s paper, reveal that only West and South African skulls were included in the baseline for a determination of “true negro” though, while the typically elongated East African skull forms were disregarded, assumed not to indicate true blacks. Some recent studies additionally suggest a modal metric phentoype in Badarian crania that is much more similar to the Tropical African series than to the various other samples studied.
Near the end of his paper (1971), Professor Strouhal further enumerated several archaeological studies that suggest a migration of culture, practice and belief from African regions located to the west and south of the Badarian sites. Strouhal’s work is noted in a 2005 study of the Badari which concluded: “The Badarians show a greater affinity to indigenous Africans while not being identical. This suggests that the Badarians were more affiliated with local and an indigenous African population than with Europeans. It is more likely that Near Eastern/southern European domesticated animals and plants were adopted by indigenous Nile Valley people without a major immigration of non-Africans. There was more of cultural transfer.”-http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badari
J1m267-READ my 7/24/09 answer-the MAJORITY of the evidence is against that that thought.Also, Arabs have all the Caucasian haplomarkers plus the F(Semites), J1 (Semites-1 & 2), L3(Semites), and V(Semites)-Blacks have none of these. As for out of Africa, the anomaly that Asian(Oriental) M1(outside of Africa) is older than any M subclade IN Africa, throughs a damper on the out-of- Africa theory.
Everything above does not contradict what I have said all along, on the contrary, it supports it-the Arabs invaded from the North(even drove out the Ethiopian invaders of Yemen then invaded Egypt-yes Ethiopa ruled for a while, but were overthrown by the Arab Ancient Egyptians. In a nutshell, starting in Northern(Lower) Egypt, the population is primarily Arab Semitic White. Moving South, the population becomes admixed, then becoming more Black approaching Sudan-Nubia-Kemet. the further you go, the less the Arab Semitic White presence-Sudan, Ethiopia, andSomalia.Many of those peoples exhibit Caucasian characteristics beyond genetic variation. As I mentioned earlier, when the Black heritage drops under 25 %, most can easily pass for White(i.e.-James Watson, DNA researcher-73% White, 16 % Black, ( % Asian). The late Dinah Shore had Black heritage in her-only finding out when she had a baby with Black features in the late 1940’s-gave it up for adoption-almost divorced over it-later divorce was not over this-sued her father for not telling her.
July 24, 2009 at 1:56 am
SORRY NATURE THIS POSTED AT THE WRONG PLACE. NATURE YOU SAY;and DNA testing shows the majority of the Ancient Egyptian mummies are Arab Semitic White-small amounts of Nubians, I MUST HAVE MISSED THOSE LINKS. PLEASE POST THEM AGAIN. Nature i really don’t think that light skin arabs call themselves white like your typical white skinned europeans. At lest the ones i know definitely don’t. AND YOU SAY;As for the Bandari, they are mixed as genetic testing shows in the links I provided. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY GENETIC RESULTS FROM THE BADARIAN LINKS YOU HAVE PROVIDED. SO WHAT GENETICS ARE YOU REFERING TO? However due to the fact that there were no white asians in the southern portions of kemet/egypt in the predynastic error (remember they were only in the delta region) I WOULD HAVE TO CONCLUDED THAT THEY WERE BLACK PEOPLE. Due to the fact that as S.O.Y. Keita states africans have the highest genetic diversity. “Recall that the Horn-Nile Valley crania show, as a group, the largest overlap with other regions. A review of the recent literature indicates that there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being “racially” different, with “racially” implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 transition, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAP derived haplogroup E or 3) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa(see semino et al., 2004). This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant Africans populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions.” (S.O.Y> Keita, Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. j. Hum. Biol. 16:679-689, 2004.) So even if they had straight hair to curly to kinky, from light skin to jet black skin to somewhat different facial characteristics, they are still black people. THERE IS NOT TRUE NEGRO OR AFRICAN MODEL AS YOU ERRONEOUSLY HAVE STATED DUE TO THE FACT THAT “Simplistic “race percentage” models are dubious in Africa which has the highest genetic diversity in the world. That diversity proceeded from deeper sub-Saharan Africa, to East and N.E. Africa, then to the rest of the globe. All other populations, including Europeans and “Middle easterners” carry this diversity which was built into Africa to begin with. Africans thus don’t need any “race mix’ to look different. Their diversity is built-in and supplied the whole globe. Any returnees or “backflow” to Africa look like Africans, including Europeans. (Brace 2005, hanihara 1996, Holliday 2003). AND AS FOR YOUR ETHIOPIANS ARE MIXED “The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-african populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely: rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies…that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of su-saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the (Tishkoff 2000,”Short Tandem-Repeat Polymorphism.) So my conclusion again. AFRICANS VARY IN HOW THEY LOOK BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST BUILT-IN MOLECULAR DIVERSITY TO BEGIN WITH.
July 14, 2009 at 1:00 am
As for the amazigh they do not like to be called arab.
July 14, 2009 at 2:04 am
El, different peoples of ALL ethnic backgrounds are shown on wall drawings, many of which ARE NOT BLACK. You have only provided anthropological evidence that agrees with my assessment-Southern(Upper) Egypt has a high Black(mostly Nubian, some Nilotic) concentration and Northern(Lower) Egypt has a high White(mostly Semitic,small amounts of Indo European Aryan Whites), and small amounts of Asians.Your own evidence which you posted near the beginning bolsters, no, detracts from this assessment. I have provided both in the article, and in my answer to you, a Y-chromosomal study showing this.
Quoted from the link I presented you-*****”Numerous anthropological studies were performed on Badarian crania after two successful excavations conducted in the mid- to late-1920s. The usual result was that the Badarians were African hybrids.*****(emphasis mine) Notably in 1971 Physical Anthropologist Eugen Strouhal re-analyzed over a dozen independent scientific studies (a couple of which were his own) performed previously and summarized their results to arrive at a similar conclusion: “mixture of races.” Recent re-analyses of previous studies, including Professor Strouhal’s paper, reveal that only West and South African skulls were included in the baseline for a determination of “true negro” though, while the typically elongated East African skull forms were disregarded, assumed not to indicate true blacks. Some recent studies additionally suggest a modal metric phentoype in Badarian crania that is much more similar to the Tropical African series than to the various other samples studied.
As for the haplomarker groups, this was made from the MOST current thinking of many sources. Your problem with countries is where you mix up parts of the Middle East in Asia with the Mongoloid countries of Asis. You also refuse to acknowledge Arabs and Blacks as two different ethnicities, which I haven proven repeatedly. Also, I have repeatedly shown you enough evidence, J1 is a Semitic White haplomarker. You have yet to
prove OTHERWISE. Please, present me with a haplomarker charter that you feel is more accurate-not to be offensive, but it took me about two hours of research to distill the mumbo jumbo out there and left my head swimming-so please, have a go at it, THEN we have common grounds to work from.
I never said the Amazigh/Berbers/Moors were Arab Semitic White, but a mix of Black/Arab Semitic White mostly, and some Indo European Aryan White.
July 15, 2009 at 3:49 am
YOU SAID THIS NATURE?El, different peoples of ALL ethnic backgrounds are shown on wall drawings, many of which ARE NOT BLACK. OH BUT NATURE ALTHOUGH I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE COLOR OF THE EGYPTIANS/KEMETIANS. WERE THEY BLACK OR WHITE. LETS TAKE A LOOK A THE EGYPTIANS FROM THE TOMB OF REKHMIRE: http://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/rekhmire.htm. NOW TELL ME WHICH ONE OF THESE PEOPLE ARE WHITE. AND YOU SAY;You have only provided anthropological evidence that agrees with my assessment-Southern(Upper) Egypt has a high Black(mostly Nubian, some Nilotic) concentration NOW NATURE THE HIGH CONCENTRATION OF BLACKS ARE THE ORIGINAL INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF EGYPT/KEMET. AGAIN YOU SAY;Northern(Lower) Egypt has a high White(mostly Semitic,small amounts of Indo European Aryan Whites), and small amounts of Asians. FIRST OF ALL NATURE WHITES WERE ALWAYS CONSIDERED FOREIGNERS NEVER AS EGYPTIANS. AND THEY MIGRATED INTO THE AREA IN SMALL SCALE MIGRATIONS, NOT A LARGE INVASION WHICH REPOPULATED KEMET/EGYPT. AND UNTIL THE FIRST DYNASTY THEY WERE HELD IN THE DELTA REGIONS OF LOWER KEMET/EGYPT. THE FIRST THRU THE 6TH DYNASTYS WERE RULED BY BLACKS FROM THE SOUTHERN AREAS. WHITE ASIANS DIDN’T EVEN ACCOUNT UNTIL THEY OVER RAN THE DELTA DURING THE FIRST INTERMEDIATE PERIOD. AFTER HAVING MIXED THEIR SEED WITH THE INDIGENIOUS BLACKS PRESENT IN THE DELTA REGIONS OF LOWER KEMET/EGYPT. WHOM WITH THE HELP OF THEIR MIXED CHILDREN EVENTUALLY GAIN SOME POWER IN HERAKLEOPOLIS WHICH FOLLOWED THE BREAKDOWN OF THE MEMPHITE GOVERNMENT. KHETI IS THE FOUNDER OF THE 9TH DYNASTY THERE. WHO HIM SELF MAY HAVE BEEN WHITE OR MIXED, HOWEVER 30 YEARS LATER A THEBAN POWER AROSE IN THE SOUTHERN REGIONS CONTROLLED BY A RIVAL FAMILY FOUNDING THE 11TH DYNASTY. CALLED THE INTEFS WARING WITH THE FACTION AT HERAKLEOPLIS UNTIL THEY WERE DRIVEN OUT OF HERAKLEOPOLIS AND THE UNIFICATION OF THE LANDS WAS COMPLETE BY A SOUTHERN NAME MENTUHOTEP 1 FOURTH DYNASTY KING OF THEBES. SO WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A WHITE GROUP WHO MIGRATED IN SMALL SCALE WHO AFTER A TIME GATHER STRENGH DURING THE INTERMEDIATE PERIOD WHEN THERE WAS NOT STRONG CENTRAL EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT ATTEMPTING TO TAKE CONTROL OVER KEMET/EGYPT AND THE ORIGINAL INDIGENOUS POPULATION. EVENTUALLY THEY ARE SUBDUED AND PROPER ORDER WAS RESTORE BY THE SOUTHERN BLACK EGYPTIANS. HOWEVER DURING THE TIME OF THE ASIATICS INVASION OF THE DELTA AND AFTER THIS TIME, THE BLACK EGYPTIANS WHO WERE LIVING IN THESE AREAS BEGAN TO MIGRATE TO THE SOUTHERN REGIONS OF KEMET. SOME NOT ALL.
June 17, 2009 at 9:06 pm
Oh by the way P2 is E1b1.
June 17, 2009 at 11:35 pm
OK
June 16, 2009 at 10:40 pm
Nature you are getting confused now. I check your links plus check out some books on summer that i have in my personal library. Al ubaid is a arab tribe, however they are not the people who lived in mesopotamia 5000 b.c. that archeologist give the name of ubaid to. They are a more recent tribe living in iraq. They have nothing to do with ancient egypt/kemet. The ubaid( as they are presently called ) of mesopotamia are a people who occupied small settlements in this area about 5000 b.c. They were not arabs as you attempted to say.Hell they didn’t even have a written lanquage. So how are you going to tell me that THEY ARE ARABS? matter of fact they may be part of the so-called summerians who have a kings list that goes back according to the dates tens of thousands of years. The first king on their list is alulim who reign in eridu it says 28,800 years(damn thats a long time) and you thought the bible had people living for a long time. Anyway again you are wrong, you need to check you facts before you clump different people together to present you case. I don’t take things on face value, anything you present i will take it understudy to determine the veracity of it.
June 16, 2009 at 11:26 pm
They were in the area of Egypt. At any rate, here are some moree mixed Black/Arab tribes and links:
Before Egypt’s existence, at best, it can only be said that the peoples of North Africa were mixed Black/Semitic White(most likely Arab) before 5000 B.C.-the earliest human cultures date to 7000 B.C., but from skeletal measurements, show only admixtures-neither Black, nor, White, but mixed, no other evidence of one or the other, there.They consist of the following tribes: Tjehenu, the Tamahu, the Libu (or Ribu), the Meshwesh, the Bejas( contain smaller tribes, such as the Ababde (or Ababda), Bisharin, Hedareb, Hadendowa (or Hadendoa), the Amarar (or Amar’ar), Beni-Amer, Shukuria, Hallenga and Hamran, some of them partly mixed with Bedouins).
Click to access keita_1990_northern_africa_1_.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Badarian
June 17, 2009 at 7:26 pm
When were the ubaid tribe of 19th century iraq in egypt/kemet? As far as for the north african people being mix black and semitic whites during the 5000. b.c…Whats is the earliest attested time and people who spoke a semitic lanquage? If you mean semite meaning white, what is the first group of white people who spoken the so-called semitic lanquage and and what was it called? You say that the earliest human cultures dates to what 7000 b.c.? Oh such a baby in time. wrong again nature. actually we will never ever find the earliest human culture. LET ME JUST NAME ONE HUMAN CULTURE THAT GOES BEYOND 7000 B.C. THE HALFAN CULTURE FLOURISHED IN ALONG THE NILE VALLEY 17,000-15,000 B.C. THE FAKHURIAN CULTURE. WAS BASED ON A MICROTHIC TOOL INDUSTRY. THE FACT THAT THEY HAD A STONE TOOL INDUSTRY IS A SIGN OF A ADVANCED CULTURE.
June 17, 2009 at 7:28 pm
SORRY I NAMED 2.
June 17, 2009 at 11:37 pm
You are quite correct on your cultures-I stand corrected
June 17, 2009 at 8:06 pm
What skulls are you speaking apon nature? If you are refering to the badarian skulls from the link, If you read further it says they left out some crucial east african skulls assuming again from some bias decision they are not true blacks? However it continues by saying recent studies suggest a modal metric phentoype in badarian crania that is much more similar to the tropical african(my understanding this means black african)series then to the other various samples study. Meaning they were not similiar to white european types. Tropical huh. Any way The tribes that you mentioned are they suppose to be your white semitic arab from 5000 b.c.?
May 26, 2009 at 4:04 am |
MAHALA COMMENTS;good grief!!! Why all this controversy about whether the egyptians are black? And such hatefulness!!! Who are all the people on this website to say? Ask a “real” egyptian—there are millions of them out there today. Ask the Egyptians if they are black or white. MOst of them consider themselves an Arabic type people. So who are we to question them? THey ought to have a better idea than us what they think they are!!!! WHY DON’T WE ASK THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS/KEMETIANS THEMSELVES FROM THE MURAL OF SETI. THE KEMETIAN/EGYPTIAN HAS A BROWN COMPLEXION NO DIFFERENT FROM THE SKIN COMPLEXION OF PEOPLE WHO ARE RIGHTLY CLASSIFIED AS A BLACK PEOPLE. LOOK ON THE WALLS OF THE TOMB OF HUY. CHECK THE DISCRIPTION THAT THE ANCIENT GREEK WRITER DISCRIBED THEM AS FROM THE COMMENTS ABOVE . NOW ARE THEY MIXED MEANING BLACK MIXED WITH WHITE. HOW CAN YOU TELL. TRUTHFULLY THAT WOULD BE LIKE TRYING TO DETERMINE WHO IS MIXED AMOUNGST THE BLACK POPULATION IN AMERICA. BEING ARABIC DOES NOT TELL YOU WHAT COMPLEXION YOU ARE. ANYONE CAN BE ARAB IF THEY SPEAK ARABIC. THE STEROTYPICAL ARAB IS A FALSE CONCEPT THAT CAUSES US TO DENY OR DISTORT THE TRUTH.
May 26, 2009 at 4:21 am |
El, you have a problem with Arabs being a SEPARATE ethnic group from Blacks-you still have not presented proof that J1 which identifies Arabs as separate from Blacks, exists in unmixed Blacks.Check out the last links I provided-they give you examples of what Blacks and Arabs look like-the features are different.Why exactly, do you feel the need to classify Arabs in the same ethnic group as Arabs? I have presented proof to the contrary of every example you have given claiming Blacks are Arabs. Yes, there are Blacks, whom live in Arab Semitic White countries as they do in Indo European Aryan White countries-you seem to confuse ethnicity with Nationality-Blacks can learn Arabic, accept Islam, and Arab customs-just as they can with Indo European Aryan White-i.e.-learn German, accept Cathlicism, and German culture-that does NOT change their ethnicity to White. As an earlier example, I presented you with just such a case- Mostafa Hefny- and Egyptian by nationality, but Black Nubian by ethnicity. If you remember, he is suing to be recognized as such. NOW, please, present evidence that UNMIXED Blacks have the J1 Arab Semitic White marker. Mahala is correct, as I have repeatedly presented proof to you, Egyptians are Arab Semitic White-even Mostafa Hefny, Black Nubian by ethnicity, Egyptian by nationality acknowledges this. The proof is in the J1 marker, and, you have yet to present evidence otherwise.
May 26, 2009 at 4:44 am
nature j1 is prevalent amoungst semitic speaking groups. so is E-m78 it doens’t make a person arab. again jews are not arabs. ashkenazim jews and sephardim jews with a combined 25% j1 m267 are not arabs. ARAB IS NOT A RACE YOU ARE IN ERROR FOR BELIEVE SUCH A CONFUSED IDEOLOGY AGAIN BLACKS AS WELL AS WHITES HAVE J1. THE AMHARA FROM ETHIOPIA 33.3% AND THEY ARE BLACK ARABS WHO TRACE THEIR LINEAGE TO ARABIA AMOUNGST A SEMITIC SPEAKING BLACK PEOPLE SABA. ALSO THE AMHARA HAVE E-M78 22.9%. WHAT WE CAN SAY FROM THIS IS THAT THIS GROUP THE AMHARA HAVE J1 AND E IN THERE POPULATION. AND J AND E ARE 2 OF THE MOST ABUNDANT HAPLO GROUPS IN ARABIA. HOWEVER ACCORDING TO THE REPORTS E AND ITS DERIVITIVES WERE ALREADY THERE BEFORE J1. IN MOROCCO ARABS HAVE A 42.9% FREQUENCY OF SUBHAPLOGROUP M-78, 32.6% M-81. THEY HAVE NO J1 BUT THEY ARE ARABS. AGAIN PROVING MY POINT THAT ARAB DOEN’ST MEAN J1.
May 26, 2009 at 6:20 am
Morroccons do inded have J1. M78′ s origins have not been definitively defined and is now actually believed to be ahybrid mutattion-it is common in North, North East,, East and the Horn of Africa as well as the Middle East outside of Africa, and through out Europe. It is not known whether it is an out-of-Africa genetic drift or a mutated genetic backdrift from Europe to Africa.If J1 is present in a person, they have mixed heritage-J1 does not occur in Blacks. Arabs are an ethnicity-Semitic White like the Jews-yes, some Jews are Jews by religion and not ethnicity.I NEVER SAID M&* MAKES OR DOES NOT MAKE A PERSON ARAB-All Arabs have J1-this identifies Arabs.Some MMorroccans are Black, again, NOT Arab Semitic White, so they would not be Arabs, nor, have J1.The Amahara are mixed peoples part Arab/part Black-read the links I gave you earlier-THERE ARE NO BLACK ARABS, but technically many are Mulattos-MIXED Black/Arab.M81 is common among Arabs, in fact believed to have originated with the Arabs of North Africa and the Middle East: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_E3b_(Y-DNA) . El, the evidence you keep presenting is contrary to what you claime-that Arabs are Black-YOUR OWN EVIDENCE SHOWS THIS IS NOT TRUE-review the links I give you.
May 30, 2009 at 2:49 am
Nature J1 doesn’t make a person white. apparently you keep running on the same premise. Nor has j1s origin been difinitively determined. One thing i will say is that Black people did not stay stagnant in africa they migrated to the middle east and the far east areas. And yes there was a return maybe numerious returns to Africa. Thats obvious. If you think they remained in africa you are not being realistic. The point here is that the germ cell originate from black people no matter how many mutations were produced during the course of how many thousands of years. White skinned people didn’t just fall out of the sky. Genetisist say that 99.9% of DNA of all people are the same. However those people that you call ancient egyptians/kemetians were definitely black people whose culture was the make up of that civilization. Definitely not your white semitic arab’s culture. However i will say this as S.O.Y. keita states”the overall pattern of genetic varitation that exists within and outside of africa suggest an african origin of modern humans and a recent common origin of non-african populations”
May 30, 2009 at 5:33 am
J1 one only identifies a White person as Arab Semitic versuses Indo European Aryan, but Arabs have all the other Caucasian markers. Only those whom are MIXED have J1, White and Black haplomarkers.
ETHNIC HAPLOMARKERS
Caucasoid-E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group- C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
Negroid- A, B ,E(except for subclade E1b1b which is a Caucasoid haplomarker), L1 & L2, M & N-all groups have these, but certain subclades are restricted to Blacks-presence of N in Blacks is not clearly defined and is possibly considered due to genetic backflow rather than present normally
M, N – is present in ALL ethnicities, but certain subclades are restricted to only Blacks
P, R, Z – Caucasoid and Mongoloids only, not Blacks
Bottom line, Blacks and Arabs are two different ethnicities ANY way you cut it-genetically and by anthropological measurements.
May 31, 2009 at 2:49 am
Nature i will continue to tell you that arabs have haplogroup E in them as well. And being that its passed on from father to son, there could not be one who posses both E-81, E-78, with j1 as well. Did the ones who have E in them get it from the black men that have this YDNA haplogroup? i know some of those blacks men have to have chosen some of the white, yellow, brown and black skinned arab speaking women for there wives and concubines as well. You know nature, you can have a black and white mix and produce light skin and brown skin or dark skinned off springs and those offsprings can mix with other light skins or black skins and produce children of various shades. And some of them can look so white that you would swear they were truely white. And the others could be so black you wouldn’t think they had any white in them. I have already showed you black people with j1 in them but you insist they have to be mixed. So until more info comes out about this i will leave it like this. A black man could have easly been the carrier of j1 and the variants in features may not have manifest until later. But as for your DNA you can’t have j without F and you can’t get F without A- the earliest common ancestor of all humans. The ethiopians posses this haplogroup and they are black. So no matter how many genetic variations you get along time we all still originate from that blackman and blackwoman. And just because one may have posses the j1 snp representing the most common recent ancestor doesn’t mean that the gene became manifested at that time.
May 31, 2009 at 5:07 am
Only Arab Semitic Whites have J1 and NO E haplomarkers- that is the error of your thinking-if they are all present in a person-the person is a mix of Black and Arab-like the late Anwar Sadat or model Lila Kebede-again I ask you to back your insistence J1 is a Black haplomarker with GENETIC PROOF-it does NOT occur in pure Blacks. The people yo showed me by your very own admittance, you could not prove they had J1 in them-Most that you claimed were Black Arabs-looked like they were Blacks others looked mixed and were even from tribes known to be primarily Arab Semitic White-whom you keep insisting are Black or, as you put it, light skinned Black Arabs.
Please, present ANY GENETIC PROOF J1 occurs in PURE, UNMIXED BLACKS or that E occurs in ANY UNMIXED PURE ARABS. If these occur in the same person, they are MIXED BLACK/ARAB heritage.
GENETIC PROOF-I have given you the links showing J1 is Arab Semitic White-the further south you go the into Africa and away from the Middle East or the further north you go into Europe, the less prevalent the J1 haplomarker become, indicating Black/ Arab and Arab Semitic White/Indo European Aryan White mixes, respectively, becomes less. J1 is most concentrated in Arab countries, those of the Middle East, in particular, the Arabian Peninsula.
June 3, 2009 at 4:40 am
NATURE JUST WHAT IS A PURE UNMIXED BLACK PERSON AND WHERE ARE THEY LOCATED ON THE PLANET EARTH?
June 3, 2009 at 2:33 pm
El, there are pure people still around of every ethnic group.I have given you the ethnic breakdown of the haplogroups-Arabs have only Caucasian haplogroups with the eception of J1, which make them Semitic White-they do not have Black haplogroups.LET ME REITERATE FOR YOU BLACKS HAVE NO J1 OR THEY ARE NOT PURE BLACK, BUT BLACK/ARAB MIX.You have NOT proved to me J1 is NOT and ARAB marker-you presented your belief it is I whom presented proof with links showing they are genetic markers for Arabs-I WANT TO SEE YOUR GENETIC/PROOF LINKS SHOWING UNMIXED BLACKS HAVE J1-BLACKS HAVE NO CAUCASIAN MARKER, INCLUDING J1-IF THEY HAVE J1, THEY ARE NOT PURE BLACK. I HAVE PRESENTED LINKS SHOWING J1 WAS IN YEMEN 50,000 YEARS AGO, WELL BEFORE THE ETHIOPIAN INVASIONS.
June 4, 2009 at 11:50 pm
FIRST of all nature i also asked you where are these pure blacks located? SECOND Arabs also have Haplogroups E and F nature. A point you seem to want to continue to over look. I have already presented you with the genetic reports and proof. You want to turn a blinds eye to these facts go ahead. It won’t stop truth from being truth. I guess you will say that E and F are caucasian haplogroups soon to. Then you will go on to say most of the haplogroups are caucasian. Thats your speculations nature. THIRD just what is your black haplogroups? AND HOW DO YOU DETERMINE WHAT IS BLACK VERSES WHAT IS WHITE HAPLOGROUPS? THE SO-CALLED LINKS YOU SHOWED ME DOES NOT TELL US WHAT IS A ARAB MAKER. IF SO LETS GO OVER IT TOGETHER SENTENCE BY SENTENCE. FOURTH THERE IS NO WAY THAT J1 WAS PRESENT BEFORE HAPLOGROUP J WHICH I SAID BEFORE IS 30,000 YEARS AGO EVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR WIKIPEDIA http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_J_(Y-DNA) IT IS MATHEMATICALLY IMPOSSISIBLE FOR J1 TO HAVE BEEN HERE 50,000 YEARS AGO. YOU MUST BE CONFUSED WITH SOME OTHER HAPLOGROUP. HERE ARE SOME LINKS THAT GIVE THE TIME OF ORIGIN FOR HAPLOGROUP J AND J1 AS WELL. http://www.kknfa.org/haplogroups.htm AND GENEBASE TELLS YOU OF THE TMCRA FOR J1 AS WELL AS THE NORTHERN SOURCE THE CAUCASUS OF J1 http://.genebase.com/tutorial/item.php?tuId=8
June 3, 2009 at 5:00 am
HERE WE GO AGAIN NATURE, ARE WE GOING TO PLAY ON WORDS. HERE IS WHAT CONSTITUTES SOUTH WEST ASIA http://saweyer.freehostia.com/js/gr/SouthwestAsia.gif THE REPORTS GENOBASE GIVES IT(J) A ORIGIN IN THE NORTHERN REGIONS NOT THE SOUTHERN ARABIAN REGIONS NATURE. AND THE REPORTS I ALREADY QUOTED TO YOU SAY IT MIGRATED FROM THE NORTH. NOT THAT IT ORIGINATE IN OMAN OR YEMAN. AND THE CAUCUS IS NOT IN THE ARABIAN PENINSULA. NOR IS ARMENIA. DON’T TRY TO CLUMP THE WHOLE REGION TOGETHER AND MAKE IT APPEAR AS IF IT ORIGINATES IN THE SOUTHERN REGIONS OF ARABIA.
June 3, 2009 at 4:39 pm
J1 originates in the Northern Arabian Peninsula, just southwest of the Caucas Mountains-J1 does NOT originate there, but in the Northern part of the ArabianPeninsula. The Fertile Crescent is a continuation of the Arabian Peninsula and broadly corresponds to present-day Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Israel, Kuwait, Jordan, south-eastern Turkey and west and south-western Iran. The Arabian Peninsula’s constituent countries are Bahrain, Kuwait, Oman, Qatar, the United Arab Emirates, Yemen and Saudi Arabia. The northern part of the peninsula is the Syrian Desert, which also includes northeastern Jordan, southeastern Syria, and western Iraq. Some usage includes the entire subcontinent of Arabia. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia
The following links will clarify your confusion for you:
http://www.indopedia.org/Southwest_Asia.html
http://www.statemaster.com/encyclopedia/Fertile-Crescent
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arabia
Click to access yhaplogroup.pdf
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Southwest_Asian_countries
http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~gkbopp/DNA/HaploChart.htm
http://homepage.mac.com/nhokanson/Sites/socialstudies/geography/16.html
June 5, 2009 at 12:01 am
LINK ME TO THE SITE THAT SAYS J1 ORIGINATES IN THE NORTHERN ARABIAN PENINSULA. THE FERTILE CRESCENT MAY CONSIST OF THESE COUNTRIES BUT NOT ALL OF THEM ARE APART OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA NATURE. NOTICE IT SAYS SOUTHEASTERN SYRIA, NORTHEASTERN JORDAN AND WESTERN IRAQ. THESE PARTS MAY BE INCLUDED IN THE NORTHERN PORTION OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA.HOWEVER SOUTHWEST ASIA INCLUDES ALL OF THESE COUNTRIES. ISRAEL AND LEBANON IS NOT APART OF THE ARABIAN PENINSULA. AS FOR ME BEING CONFUSED ABOUT IT. THERE IS NOTHING BUT CLARITY IN MY MIND ABOUT THESE FACTS I PRESENTED TO YOU.
June 15, 2009 at 3:33 am |
Good day
[url=http://www.internetmosque.net]The Lord Complete Audio English Quran in MP3 [/url]
Islam is a racist, afro-centric cult because:
Nation of Islam espouses the superiority of the black man
The Nation of Islam recognizes God as a black man
One of the great misconceptions of the twentieth century is that the so-called `Nation of Islam’ is a Muslim community, or more precisely: a community which submits to Allah by following the Qur’an and Sunnah. The `Nation of Islam’ is a man-made way of life which borrowed some elements of Islam and then mixed them with a large number of inventions and lies to reach their present doctrines.
It suffices to point out the `Nation of Islam’s deviation in two areas. First, they reject the essence of Islam by concocting a story wherein the Creator takes the form of a black man. From their on-line publications, we find that the `Nation of Islam’ believes in
…one God (Allah) and that Allah (God) appeared in the Person of Master W. Fard Muhammad, July, 1930; the long awaited `Messiah’ of the Christians and the `Mahdi’ of the Muslims…
However, the Creator states in the Qur’an (translation),
[6:103] No vision can grasp Him, but His grasp is over all vision: He is above all comprehension, yet is acquainted with all things.
The `Nation of Islam’ also claims that white men are `devils’, and that black people are in general superior to all other races. However, from the Sunnah, specifically in the Messenger of Allah’s farewell sermon, we find the Messenger (pbuh) saying:
All mankind is from Adam and Eve, an Arab has no superiority over a non-Arab nor a non-Arab has any superiority over an Arab; also a white has no superiority over a black nor a black has any superiority over a white – except by piety and good action.
There are many other beliefs which the `Nation of Islam’ holds which take it outside of Islam. It is interesting to note that in the mid-1970’s, the overwhelming majority of the group realized its errors and converted to true Islam. There is, however, a splinter group which remains active today.
For more details [url=http://www.internetmosque.net]click her[/url]
June 15, 2009 at 2:34 pm |
Islam in its TRUE form, is no more racist or a cult than Christianity or any other religion.Religion is a neutral tool, like a gun. It is what human beings do with it that can either save or destroy lives. I am reminded of an old stare trek show-loved the original series. One of my favorite shows in the series is what I call God-Devil reverse role playing. The Enterprise crew(EC) actually playing the role of the devil as the “GOOD GUY” and God in the form of a GOD called “Baal”, playing the “Bad Guy”. The EC comes upon this planet where this God, named Baal, in a place like Eden, provides food, water, shelter, climate control, even replacements(no sex) for being that were lostin exchange for food, water, and worship.The EC intermingles with the inhabitants, showing them, they needed their fredom to do things for themselves. Two of the inhabitants find they are falling in love.Baal gets angry at the EC, fires some lightening killing the female inhabitant.Kirk orders the Enterprise to take action and to beam the EC up. Baal fires lightening bolts at the Enterprise. The Enterprise had put up their deflector shields and returned fire with the ships phasers-Baal is destroyed.The wather becomes inclement. The inhabitants find they must fend for themselves, planting and producing their own food, shelter, and make replacements(have sex).Eden no longer exists. The EC leaves promising to assist as needed.Role reversalThe universe operates on BALANCE. As Albert Einstein once said “God does not play dice with the universe”.
Islam by the way, has its origins with Arab Semitic Whites, not, Black ethnicity, therefore NOT Afro centric.The “Nation of Islam” is a group made up of Blacks whose RELIGION, not ethnic makeup, is Muslim. Most Muslims(80-85%) ARE NOT Arab and are mostly Asians and Blacks with some Indo European Aryan Whites(peoples of Undia and Pakistan.Most Arabs(again 80-85%) are Muslims. There is only one race-human-subspecies Homo sapein sapiens, to be eexact. Many people do not believe Arabs are Semitic White, a separate ethnicity from the Black ethnicity. This article is not about differnces between ethnicities, but about whose heritage the pyramids belong to-truth is, if they were built by humans-ALL ethnicities participated at some level.Truthfully, all evidence points to more advanced beings having built them, rather than humans of that time period, whether they were from some other dimensions, planets, our future, or, any combination there of.Death is the TRUE equalizer. There are many indications civilizations much older than what are known, have come and gone. I highly recommend you read the book, “Forbidden Archeology: The Full Unabridged Edition: Michael A. Cremo, Richard L. Thompson: Books” for more incites on this, a very fascinating, and, eye opening book.Ethnic diversity is what keeps a population alive.The so called pure ethnicity, limits genetic diversity and adaption which leads to EXTINCTION.I have friends, and have dated women across the spectrum-variety is the spice of life. There are supremacists in EVERY ethnic group-those are the losers in life’s gambit. They often alter religious beliefs to suite their desires an purposes.I have yet to meet anyone I can not learn something from.
June 17, 2009 at 8:49 pm |
Thank you for that. It is really imformative read.
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June 21, 2009 at 1:05 am |
EXCUSE THE SPELLING ERROR.
June 25, 2009 at 6:55 am |
Ok, I am confused.. (not really)..but I do not understand how it is SO hard to understand that the ancient Egyptians were indeed black people. The art, statues, sculptures etc exhibit “black” features FAR MORE than that of “white” features. To believe that whites were in that region (Africa) is ludicrous given the climate and environment. DARK skin is due to HOT regions. White skin is due to COLD regions. Common sense. According to scientists, the cranial structures found were that of African (black/tropical) peoples-of course. What other skulls would there be? White skin, according to the Bible, was associated with leprousy. Moses for example (whom of which grew up in an Egyptian household) was told by God (the burning bush) to put his hand into his breast and then to pull it out… The Bible says Moses’ hand was leprous as snow. Moses had to have been of brown or dark skin for it to look like snow (white) Exodus 4:6.
Here are some photos of ancient egyptians depicted in their OWN sculptures and artwork.
Queen Tiye- http://subtletys4u.com/yahoo_site_admin/assets/images/queen_tiye_pic.218135122_std.jpg
She looks VERY “black” to me..
Notice the broad nose on the sculpture? Thats not a sharp pointy nose..
King Tut-Found in his tomb. This is a definite black man. Not white by any shred of means…
Flat nose….african features.
Check out the lips
Does this look like a white woman to you? This actually looks like my mother (who is black btw).
A reconstruction of Nefretiti’s face
http://img.webring.com/r/a/akhenatensegypti/logo
I can go on and on.. I know its hard, as a white person, to accept that blacks are responsible for ALOT of the things you know today.. evidence PROVES that they were what you fear they were…Black. Its sad and pathetic that some white people have to claim EVERYTHING that is good… America, Egypt, Jesus, the world!… None of it was yours.. Its was only attained because SOME (the ones that took over) of you were thieves, liars, rapists, and murderers. And even to this day, there is still some type of programmed dna in some whites that makes them want to continue to STEAL and LIE about things that are CLEARLY seen as facts. If Jesus or the Egyptians were to rise right now as they looked when they had lived, I bet the white folks would rather drop dead then witness it! Im not trying to be funny, I am serious. That is downright delusional. The pictures, the sculptures dear NATURE, are NOT white at all…They are the complete opposite. And if you just CANT say they were black, we can ALL say SAFELY, that they dang sure were NOT white. Im not meaning for any of this to come off as rude because my tone truly is not that intentionally. Just forward truth. I hope we all get it together… ALL of us. God Bless
June 25, 2009 at 5:05 pm |
Unless comments are spam, I never censor any and welcome intelligent debate.Have you read the article. There were Black Nubians in Egypt, but they were NOT the ancient Egyptians, whom were Arab Semitic White. Arabs generally have golden brown skin, dark hair, and eyes-no, this is NOT due to mixing. Being Caucasian, a small percentage run the gamut of other Caucasians. The Black Nubians did rule for about 100 years as did many others, but the Arabs ruled for most of the time. There was certainly admixture as I pointed out. The very beautiful Queen Tiye is thought to Be Nubian Black or Nubian Black/Arab/oriental Asian mix. She is thought to be the grandmother of King Tut, whom I believe to be of mixed heritage, unlike the experts whom did the reconstruction.King Tut’s ancestral lineage is still conjectured up on. I believe if you review the comments and my answers, you will gain much information. I never denied Black Nubians having a part in the Egyptian culture, but they are not the Ancient Egyptians.View the mural from King Set I- the Egyptians separate themselves from the Black Nubians.As an example of an admixture-the late Anwar Sadat was half Egyptian Arab Semitic White(father)/half Black Nubian-Sudanese-Kemitean(mother). Egypt also had a small percentage of other ethnicities, but is primarily Arab Semitic White(the MAJORITY) and Black(Nubian, some Nilotic) . Egypt has a great diversity of peoples.King Tut’s features are of a mixed heritage-I have several mixed heritage friends so I can easily recognize this. As for Queen Tiye-her eyes indicate possible mixture, but mostly Black(example-Oprah has some Asian in her and this does make her eyes look slightly different than a typical Black’s eyes. Nefretiti appears to be either Arab Semitic White or possibly some distant Black ancestry. She has a recessed jaw, thin lips, smallelliptical eyes, high forehead, narrow pronounced nose-Caucasian characteristics. Width of her cheek bones and sitting high, may indicate some distant Black heritage, but the majority of her facial characteristics are Caucasian. As for the drawings, images, busts, many ethnicities are shown there. If you start in Northern(Lower) Egypt, you see the highest frequency of Caucasian characteristics, as you move into Southern (Upper Egypt) you see the highest frequency of Black characteristics. In the middle is plenty of admixture. This has been proven by DNA testing, dental records, and anthropological measurements.This stands to reason as Egypt annexed part of Nubia(present day Sudan) in 1521 B.C..
June 25, 2009 at 6:56 am |
Also, NATURE… I hope you are not afraid to post my comment. I will check back occasionally. Thanks and God bless
June 29, 2009 at 7:32 pm |
YOu are SO wrong Natures corner. IN regards to genetic E3b is indeed African. It has an origin IN Ethiopia amongst black people according to ALL Geneticist. All the previous mutations FROM M35 all that way back the they original Haplogroup E marker are BLACK as well. THe father of M35 and M2 is P2. And this mutation happened WAY after the out of Africa movement.
People in the middle east, Europe etc have E3b simple because AFRICANS traveled out of Africa POST OOA and mixed with them. Of all the different mutations of E3b MOST of them are seen in Ethiopia. Some mutations of E3b are ONLY seen in sub Saharan blacks – E-M293 is an example.
You need to go back and do your homework. TO sit here and say that E3b is somehow Caucasian WITHOUT ANY PROOF and then say ALL The other subclades of Haplogroup E are not is LAUGHABLE!
Genetics shows E3b* (* Means NO MUTATION) originated in Ethiopia.
-From Ethiopia M35* traveled to Sudan.
-In Sudan (Particularly Nubia) M35 mutated to M78.
-M78 mutated to M12(v12) which stayed in southern Egypt and Northern Sudan.
-M78(v12) had a mutation called (V32) that traveled South West to Sudan and south East now seen in Ethiopians like Somali Oromo etc.
IN regards to Europeans – While M78* was in Egypt it traveld out and when in the middle east a mutation called V13 was spawned that settled in the Balkins – THIS is why Europeans have haplogroup E. It is nothing but an indication of African Admixture.
Back to M35*
-While Also in Egypt M35 created mutation M81 that traveled WEST and is seen in berbers as far as Western Sahrara
-M35* also traveled from Egypt or directly from the Horn to Arabia and spawned mutation M123
-M35* ALSO only about 2-3000 years ago traveled FROM Ethiopia SOUTH carrying mutation M293 seen as far south as South Africa.
-M35* Also had a mutation called “V6” that is seen in southern and central Ethiopians.
This is what genetics says. Please actually take time to READ the studies. M35* has an origin that happened in East African BLACK PEOPLE. If you go to wiki your can look at the MAP of the migration of E3B – It should the Migration coming from Sub Saharan BLACK Africa.
June 29, 2009 at 10:14 pm |
Sorry, but it is you are only partially correct. Here is the answer from the article:
“E1a and E2 are found almost exclusively in Africa, and only E1b1b is observed in significant frequencies in Europe and western Asia in addition to Africa. Most SUB-SAHARAN AFRICANS belong to subclades of E OTHER than E1b1b, while MOST NON-AFRICANS who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade. Greeks and Romans have Indo European Aryan White DNA(haploid) markers and the Ancient and Modern Egyptians have Arab Semitic White DNA(haploid) markers- subclade E1b1b. Arabs in North Africa are Semitic White, and, technically, can be called White, not, Black, Africans. Greece and Rome are a part of Europe, so Greeks and Romans would be called Indo European Aryan White. According to Wikipedia, “Most Sub-Saharan Africans belong to subclades of E other than E1b1b, while most non-Africans who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade.” (Citing Fulvio Cruciani et al, Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E1b1b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa, Am. J. Hum. Genet, p. 74)”
The answer is accurate and correct. In particular, read the last 3 1/2 sentences.
July 4, 2009 at 3:48 pm |
Very nice site!
July 5, 2009 at 8:05 pm |
I TELL YOU WHAT NATURE. DIRECT ME TO THE LINKS THAT YOU DERIVED THIS INFORMATION FROM:also Arabs have the haplomarkers of Caucasians, not Blacks-other Semitic White haplomarkers-certain E subclades, F and V:
Caucasoid-E (only subclade E1b1b is a Caucasoid marker-all other sublades of E are Negroid haplomarkers), F(Semites), H, I, J(Semites-1 & 2), K, L3(Semites), T, U, V(Semites), W, X, Y
Mongoloid(anthropologists now include American Indians(Red) and Malaysians(Brown) ethnicities in this group- C, D, F, G, O, Q, S- American Indians also have A, B, and X
July 10, 2009 at 1:45 am |
I should say that naturescorner.wordpress.com has lots of interesting information. Looks like the author did a good job. I will be coming back to naturescorner.wordpress.com for new information. Thank you.
July 15, 2009 at 3:45 am |
YOU SAID THIS NATURE?El, different peoples of ALL ethnic backgrounds are shown on wall drawings, many of which ARE NOT BLACK. OH BUT NATURE ALTHOUGH I DISAGREE WITH YOU ON THAT WE ARE TALKING ABOUT THE COLOR OF THE EGYPTIANS/KEMETIANS. WERE THEY BLACK OR WHITE. LETS TAKE A LOOK A THE EGYPTIANS FROM THE TOMB OF REKHMIRE:ttp://www.touregypt.net/featurestories/rekhmire.htm. NOW TELL ME WHICH ONE OF THESE PEOPLE ARE WHITE. AND YOU SAY;You have only provided anthropological evidence that agrees with my assessment-Southern(Upper) Egypt has a high Black(mostly Nubian, some Nilotic) concentration NOW NATURE THE HIGH CONCENTRATION OF BLACKS ARE THE ORIGINAL INDIGENOUS PEOPLE OF EGYPT/KEMET. AGAIN YOU SAY;Northern(Lower) Egypt has a high White(mostly Semitic,small amounts of Indo European Aryan Whites), and small amounts of Asians. FIRST OF ALL NATURE WHITES WERE ALWAYS CONSIDERED FOREIGNERS NEVER AS EGYPTIANS. AND THEY MIGRATED INTO THE AREA IN SMALL SCALE MIGRATIONS, NOT A LARGE INVASION WHICH REPOPULATED KEMET/EGYPT. AND UNTIL THE FIRST DYNASTY THEY WERE HELD IN THE DELTA REGIONS OF LOWER KEMET/EGYPT. THE FIRST THRU THE 6TH DYNASTYS WERE RULED BY BLACKS FROM THE SOUTHERN AREAS. WHITE ASIANS DIDN’T EVEN ACCOUNT UNTIL THEY OVER RAN THE DELTA DURING THE FIRST INTERMEDIATE PERIOD. AFTER HAVING MIXED THEIR SEED WITH THE INDIGENIOUS BLACKS PRESENT IN THE DELTA REGIONS OF LOWER KEMET/EGYPT. WHOM WITH THE HELP OF THEIR MIXED CHILDREN EVENTUALLY GAIN SOME POWER IN HERAKLEOPOLIS WHICH FOLLOWED THE BREAKDOWN OF THE MEMPHITE GOVERNMENT. KHETI IS THE FOUNDER OF THE 9TH DYNASTY THERE. WHO HIM SELF MAY HAVE BEEN WHITE OR MIXED, HOWEVER 30 YEARS LATER A THEBAN POWER AROSE IN THE SOUTHERN REGIONS CONTROLLED BY A RIVAL FAMILY FOUNDING THE 11TH DYNASTY. CALLED THE INTEFS WARING WITH THE FACTION AT HERAKLEOPLIS UNTIL THEY WERE DRIVEN OUT OF HERAKLEOPOLIS AND THE UNIFICATION OF THE LANDS WAS COMPLETE BY A SOUTHERN NAME MENTUHOTEP 1 FOURTH DYNASTY KING OF THEBES. SO WHAT WE HAVE HERE IS A WHITE GROUP WHO MIGRATED IN SMALL SCALE WHO AFTER A TIME GATHER STRENGH DURING THE INTERMEDIATE PERIOD WHEN THERE WAS NOT STRONG CENTRAL EGYPTIAN GOVERNMENT ATTEMPTING TO TAKE CONTROL OVER KEMET/EGYPT AND THE ORIGINAL INDIGENOUS POPULATION. EVENTUALLY THEY ARE SUBDUED AND PROPER ORDER WAS RESTORE BY THE SOUTHERN BLACK EGYPTIANS. HOWEVER DURING THE TIME OF THE ASIATICS INVASION OF THE DELTA AND AFTER THIS TIME, THE BLACK EGYPTIANS WHO WERE LIVING IN THESE AREAS BEGAN TO MIGRATE TO THE SOUTHERN REGIONS OF KEMET. SOME NOT ALL.
July 16, 2009 at 12:34 am |
El, the people in your paintings, do NOT look like typical Black people, having brown skin, rather than the brownish blackish skin of most full Black people-note the prominent pointed noses. The Ancient Egyptians also wore wigs made from the hair of their Black Nubian women. Painting 5 and 6 look like typical Arab Semitic White, NOT, Black women
-no, most Arabs as I told you before, have a golden brown skin, dark hair, and dark eyes-like Jamie Farr. I never said Arabs were the original peoples there, just that they were the Ancient Egyptians, not the Black Nubians. Nubia/Kemet was modern Sudan and the lower 1/4 southwestern Egypt. Kemet in reference to Egypt, refers to the rish, Black soil of the region. in my article, the mural of King Seti I shows the Egyptians(dark brown) saw themselves as NOT Nubians(black). The link in the article shows a smorgas board of peoples in Egypt, the majority of whom were, and, are Arab Semitic White: http://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/2008/07/22/the-faces-of-ancient-egypt/
Southern(Upper) Egypt has mostly Black Nubians, some Nilotics, Northern(Lower Egypt, mostly Arab Semitic White, small amounts of Indo European Aryan Whites, and Mongoloid Asians.Your own anthropological data backed this when you first started responding in the discussion. By the way, I have been waiting a long time, for your proof the J1 marker is not and Arab marker. Also, I would like to see YOUR version of the haplomarker chart-keep in mind, you tend to confuse parts of the Middle East in Asia, as non Arab, which is not accurate-look up the definition of Near East countries.
July 20, 2009 at 2:28 pm
NATURE YOU SAY;I never said Arabs were the original peoples there, just that they were the Ancient Egyptians, not the Black Nubians. NOW NATURE HOW IS THE ARABS WHO MIGRATED THERE GOING TO BE THE ORIGINAL EGYPTIANS AND THE BLACK NUBIANS NOT?
July 17, 2009 at 11:03 am |
Very nice site!
July 20, 2009 at 12:48 pm |
AS FOR THE BADARIANS;while the typically elongated East African skull forms were disregarded, assumed not to indicate true blacks. THEY DIDN’T EVEN INCLUDE THEM BECAUSE THEY WERERN’T CLASSIFIED AS TRUE BLACKS? SUCH A BIAS STUDY WON’T REVEAL THE FACTS. AND THIS STUDY WAS DONE IN 1920’S.The usual result was that the Badarians were African hybrids.THIS IS YOUR MIXTURE OF RACES RIGHT. HOWEVER THE MORE RECENT STUDY SAYS:Some recent studies additionally suggest a modal metric phentoype in Badarian crania that is much more similar to the Tropical African series than to the various other samples studied.MORE SIMILAR TO THE TROPICAL AFRICAN SERIES? JUST WHAT IS THE TROPICAL AFRICAN SERIES NATURE? TO TOP IT OFF FROM THE REFERENCE OF THE LINK “EARLY NILE VALLEY FARMERS FROM EL BADARI” S.O.Y. KEITA SAYS “The Badarian series clusters with the tropical African groups no matter which algorithmis employed(seeFigures3and4). SO I SAY AGAIN NATURE WHAT IS THE TROPICAL AFRICAN? ARE THEY A MIXTURE OF RACES? I DON’T THINK SO.
July 20, 2009 at 12:57 pm |
ON THE BADARIANS YOU SAID;The Badarians were NOT pure Black ,BUT MIXED. NOW WHEN YOU SAY MIXED NATURE WOULD THAT HAPPEN TO MEAN MULATTO? OR 3/4 TH BLACK AND 1/4 WHITE? OR JUST WHAT PERCENTAGE OF MIX ARE WE TALKING ABOUT NATURE? CAUSE IN AMERICA WE ARE ALL BLACK REGARDLESS OF WHAT PERCENTAGE OF WHITE WE MAY HAVE IN US. WE DON’T HAVE TO BE PURE BLACK TO BE BLACK NATURE. BUT ONE THING WE CAN SAY IS THAT THE BADARIANS ARE DEFINITELY NOT YOUR WHITE SEMITIC PEOPLE. ARE THEY?
July 20, 2009 at 4:39 pm |
Click here if interested…
Good job narrowing down all the information….
July 20, 2009 at 11:24 pm |
YOU SAY NATURE;Self-explanatory-Nubia is a separate country from Egypt-the Arab invaders drove most of the Black population out, and as I mentioned before, assimilated some by marriage/rape/consensual matings. NOW NATURE WHEN DID THIS ARAB INVASION OCCUR? AND DON’T YOU MEAN THE FOREIGNERS DROVE THE NATIVE INHABITANTS OUT? HOW LONG DID THIS TAKE? KNOWING THAT BLACK PEOPLE STILL ARE IN EGYPT? NOT EVERY NATIVE BLACK WAS DRIVEN OUT.
July 24, 2009 at 1:49 am |
NATURE YOU SAY;and DNA testing shows the majority of the Ancient Egyptian mummies are Arab Semitic White-small amounts of Nubians, I MUST HAVE MISSED THOSE LINKS. PLEASE POST THEM AGAIN. Nature i really don’t think that light skin arabs call themselves white like your typical white skinned europeans. At lest the ones i know definitely don’t. AND YOU SAY;As for the Bandari, they are mixed as genetic testing shows in the links I provided. I HAVE NOT SEEN ANY GENETIC RESULTS FROM THE BADARIAN LINKS YOU HAVE PROVIDED. SO WHAT GENETICS ARE YOU REFERING TO? However due to the fact that there were no white asians in the southern portions of kemet/egypt in the predynastic error (remember they were only in the delta region) I WOULD HAVE TO CONCLUDED THAT THEY WERE BLACK PEOPLE. Due to the fact that as S.O.Y. Keita states africans have the highest genetic diversity. “Recall that the Horn-Nile Valley crania show, as a group, the largest overlap with other regions. A review of the recent literature indicates that there are male lineage ties between African peoples who have been traditionally labeled as being “racially” different, with “racially” implying an ontologically deep divide. The PN2 transition, a Y chromosome marker, defines a lineage (within the YAP derived haplogroup E or 3) that emerged in Africa probably before the last glacial maximum, but after the migration of modern humans from Africa(see semino et al., 2004). This mutation forms a clade that has two daughter subclades (defined by the biallelic markers M35/215 (or 215/M35) and M2) that unites numerous phenotypically variant Africans populations from the supra-Saharan, Saharan, and sub-Saharan regions.” (S.O.Y> Keita, Exploring northeast African metric craniofacial variation at the individual level: A comparative study using principal component analysis. Am. j. Hum. Biol. 16:679-689, 2004.) So even if they had straight hair to curly to kinky, from light skin to jet black skin to somewhat different facial characteristics, they are still black people. THERE IS NOT TRUE NEGRO OR AFRICAN MODEL AS YOU ERRONEOUSLY HAVE STATED DUE TO THE FACT THAT “Simplistic “race percentage” models are dubious in Africa which has the highest genetic diversity in the world. That diversity proceeded from deeper sub-Saharan Africa, to East and N.E. Africa, then to the rest of the globe. All other populations, including Europeans and “Middle easterners” carry this diversity which was built into Africa to begin with. Africans thus don’t need any “race mix’ to look different. Their diversity is built-in and supplied the whole globe. Any returnees or “backflow” to Africa look like Africans, including Europeans. (Brace 2005, hanihara 1996, Holliday 2003). AND AS FOR YOUR ETHIOPIANS ARE MIXED “The fact that the Ethiopians and Somalis have a subset of the sub-Saharan African haplotype diversity and that the non-african populations have a subset of the diversity present in Ethiopians and Somalis makes simple-admixture models less likely: rather, these observations support the hypothesis proposed by other nuclear-genetic studies…that populations in northeastern Africa may have diverged from those in the rest of su-saharan Africa early in the history of modern African populations and that a subset of this northeastern-African population migrated out of Africa and populated the rest of the (Tishkoff 2000,”Short Tandem-Repeat Polymorphism.) So my conclusion again. AFRICANS VARY IN HOW THEY LOOK BECAUSE THEY HAVE THE HIGHEST BUILT-IN MOLECULAR DIVERSITY TO BEGIN WITH.
July 24, 2009 at 1:16 pm |
http://billygambelaafroasiaticanthropology.wordpress.com/
July 24, 2009 at 1:18 pm |
Very Interesting… I am Nile Valley’s L2a1 and Y-chromo E-M2
http://billygambelaafroasiaticanthropology.wordpress.com/
July 24, 2009 at 1:43 pm |
You have a very well put together site. The fact is Northern(Lower) Egypt has mostyl an Arab Semitic White population and moving into Southern(Upper) Egypt a mor predominantly Black(mostly Nubian, some Nilotics) population plus a small percentage of all other ethnic groups. There is NO doubt there was plenty of mixing especially of the Araband Black populations. Egypt is probably one of the most diverse groups of people on earth. View the discussion between my friend El and I. Add to your views to our discussion.
July 24, 2009 at 2:03 pm |
I noticed no mention of the J1 haplomarker which is the Arab haplomarker and predominates in Northern(Lower) Egypt. Haplotype V is also an Arab haplotype and is 39.4%, the MOST common.The 7th photo down from the top, is a very Arab looking female. It might be noted, in mixesBlack characteristics generally predominate until the heritage drops below 25%(most can pass as White-no offence is intended-i.e-James Watson, DNA researcher is 73% White, 16% Black, and, 9% Asian-he looks White, and , did not speak highly of Blacks, that is, until he recently found out his heritage with a DNA test-LOL!!!).
July 27, 2009 at 9:30 pm |
NATURE YOU SAY:El, genetic link on Egyptian mummies and Modern Egyptians:No offense, but lately, you seem to not read my links-this would save much backtracking if you would.I dop always review YOUR links. NOW THE LINK YOU GAVE ME NATURE I HAVE HAD THIS ARTICLE FOR MONTHS. IF THIS IS THE LINK YOU ARE REFERING TO. WHAT PARAGRAPH AND SENTENCES ARE YOU POINTING TO. TO PROVE YOU POINT?
July 27, 2009 at 10:08 pm |
El, I have read all your links-you have requested a number of times presenting Arabs are not Black-I have given you the links showing they do not have Black haplomarkers and have all the Caucasian markers, plus a few that separate Arab Semitic White from Indo European Aryan White.
The following link shows that Blacks are the Nubians in Southern egypt, Not the Arabs in Northern Egypt-pick the paragraph you wish tos discuss:
Click to access 32.1keita.pdf
I am still waiting for your proof the J1 marker is a Black, not Arab, haplomarker. Additionally, Arabs and some Jews have the following haplomarkers- F(Semites), L3(Semites), and, V(Semites). Please, show me genetic proof Black and Arabs are in the same ethnic group. Also, I am waiting for proof the Badari are NOT mixed. I presented several links showing genetic proof they are mixed.
August 5, 2009 at 9:06 am |
Astonishing post i sine qua non say that was good reading
August 5, 2009 at 2:15 pm |
Thank you-REFER FRIENDS.
August 17, 2009 at 11:21 pm |
Ironically, genetics is often not very definitive in determining the ethnic composition of the ancient Egyptians. Mainly due to the fact that populations aren’t static and the modern Egyptian (as well as ancient) population has seen noted contacts with foreigners from various sources. It has been suggested that a steady foreign migration of about 1% per generation can alter significantly the aboriginal gene frequencies of a population over several thousand years. As a consequence, it shouldn’t be surprising that many autosomal DNA studies find modern Egyptians to be “mixed”. Material from mummies are also deemed relatively unreliable. A 2002 study on the rate of decay of DNA in the Papyri plant, found complete deterioration, even in the most recent sample from the 8th Century A.D. It was concluded that this evidence is supportive of any arguments against claims of a reliable recovery of DNA in Egyptian mummies. This is contrary to a weird claim made by a team of “scientists” at the University of Cairo, asserting that the DNA of the Pyramid workers “matched” those of modern Egyptians. As if modern Egyptians aren’t variable. Also weird, is the utter failure to publish any of these results and comparative data or their materials and methodology, etc. Relevant as well are the more obscure studies. Paabo and Di Rienzo (1993) found “sub-Saharan” DNA in Egyptian mummies and apparently so did another 1999 study from the University of Turin. Only tentative conclusions can be made, however, the inferences to be made from living populations have still been significant. A 2004 study on the mtDNA of the Gurna population (who are relatively more isolated from the urban centers) in southern Egypt found an ancestral link to east Africa, as Kivisild did in his 2004 Ethiopian study of mtDNA. Y-Chromosome data, courtesy of Lucotte (2003) show that Modern Egyptians are overwhelmingly of PN2 derivation, which is a clade that emerged in Africa sometime proceeding the migration of humans out of Africa, but before the end of the last ice age. This is defined ultimately as E3 which diverged into various haplotypes all related through out Africa, which reveals ancient ancestral ties between Africans north to south, well before the former or the latter shares ancestry with non-Africans who lack in substantial frequencies, these African genes. A most recent 2008 Y-Chromosome study conducted in conjunction by Standford and the University of Khartoum, found relatively high frequencies of the haplogroup B-M60 in modern Copts, suggesting the population to represent a historical narrative for the peopling of Southern Egypt by Nilotic migrants from tropical Africa, during and preceding the period of state formation. These data are expected given numerous archaeological and historical findings that are overwhelmingly supportive of this scenario.
August 17, 2009 at 11:23 pm |
I can’t believe the author of this ridiculous blog post said the e1b1 was Caucasoid when its most common in the horn of Africa.
August 17, 2009 at 11:25 pm |
E1b1 is not Caucasoid it originated in Somalia/Ethiopia! Oh wait… let me guess….. another black group about to be relabeled “caucasoids”.
August 17, 2009 at 11:27 pm |
LOL, this guy didn’t get the memo the Nefereti bust was a proven forgery and their is no evidence to suggests Queen Tiye was of non-nubian origin.
August 17, 2009 at 11:31 pm |
(edit) I mean to say there is no evidence to suggests tiye was nubian
August 18, 2009 at 5:01 am
The Ancient Egyptians were Arab Semitic White, not Nubian Black. The Nubians were concentrated in the lower southwestern 1/4 of Egypt(annexed part of Nubia in 1520 B.C.). Northern Egypt is Arab Semitic White with much admixture occuring as the southern part of Egypt is approached.
On Queen Tiye’s ethnicity-the following links are but a few that indicate she was mixed, and, part Black(if not Nubian, some other Black tribe, but most likely, Nubian):
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tiye
http://www.geocities.com/Tokyo/Temple/9845/data7.htm
The jury is still out on whether the Nefereti bust is faked. Recent X-rays indicate the originak bust was layered over at least once, possibly more, to make her look younger. The pigment COMPOSITION appears to be of the 3,400 years ago time period, which would have been unknown to a forger of 1912 if it was forged.There are statues that back up the bust likeness REGARDLESS if the bust is forged or not. I will be addressing this in the article shortly. In the mean time, here are some links reviewing this matter:.
http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hbA1toEwcEZfiZRMbIOq_exLNnaA
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2009/03/090331-nefertiti-bust-picture.html
Cruciani has now changed his nomeclature.
E1b1b was formerly marked by the E-M35 mutation and is now identified by Cruciani as E-M215, with M35 being reserved for a down stream lineage which makes up the vast majority of Saharan and non-African Haplogroup E lineages.
“E3*” is now E1b1*. The PN2 clade is made up of E1b1*-P2 (or E-P2) derivatives. E1b1* lineages in turn are Haplogroup E*-M96 derivatives (the ones marked by the P2 mutation).
E1a and E2 are found almost exclusively in Africa, and only E1b1b is observed in significant frequencies in Europe and western Asia in addition to Africa. Most SUB-SAHARAN AFRICANS belong to subclades of E OTHER than E1b1b, while MOST NON-AFRICANS who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade. Greeks and Romans have Indo European Aryan White DNA(haploid) markers and the Ancient and Modern Egyptians have Arab Semitic White DNA(haploid) markers- subclade E1b1b. Arabs in North Africa are Semitic White, and, technically, can be called White, not, Black, Africans. Greece and Rome are a part of Europe, so Greeks and Romans would be called Indo European Aryan White. According to Wikipedia, “Most Sub-Saharan Africans belong to subclades of E other than E1b1b, while most non-Africans who belong to haplogroup E belong to its E1b1b subclade.” (Citing Fulvio Cruciani et al, Phylogeographic Analysis of Haplogroup E1b1b (E-M215) Y Chromosomes Reveals Multiple Migratory Events Within and Out Of Africa, Am. J. Hum. Genet, p. 74)
“Haplogroup E-M78, however, is more widely distributed and is thought to have an origin in eastern African. More recently, this haplogroup has been carefully dissected and was found to depict several well-established subclades with defined geographical clustering (Cruciani et al., 2006, 2007). Although this haplogroup is common to most Sudanese populations, it has exceptionally high frequency among populations like those of western Sudan (particularly Darfur) and the Beja in eastern Sudan… Although the PC plot places the Beja and Amhara from Ethiopia in one sub-cluster based on shared frequencies of the haplogroup J1, the distribution of M78 subclades (Table 2) indicates that the Beja are perhaps related as well to the Oromo on the basis of the considerable frequencies of E-V32 among Oromo in comparison to Amhara (Cruciani et al., 2007)…
These findings affirm the historical contact between Ethiopia and eastern Sudan (1998), and the fact that these populations speak languages of the Afroasiatic family tree reinforces the strong correlation between linguistic and genetic diversity (Cavalli-Sforza, 1997).”
“Genetic continuum of the Nubians with their kin in southern(Upper) Egypt is indicated by comparable frequencies of E-V12 the predominant M78 subclade among southern(Upper) Egyptians.”
“The Copt samples displayed a most interesting Y-profile, enough (as much as that of Gaalien in Sudan) to suggest that they actually represent a living record of the peopling of Egypt. The significant frequency of B-M60 in this group might be a relic of a history of colonization of southern Egypt probably by Nilotics in the early state formation, something that conforms both to recorded history and to Egyptian mythology.”
Source: (Hisham Y. Hassan 1, Peter A. Underhill 2, Luca L. Cavalli-Sforza 2, Muntaser E. Ibrahim 1. (2008). Y-chromosome variation among Sudanese: Restricted gene flow, concordance with language, geography, and history. Am J Phys Anthropology, 2008.)
August 28, 2009 at 2:19 pm
Mathilda at her link mad an error in counting Arab Semitic Whites as Black in her statistics at the following link:
Haplotype V is NOT a Black, but an Arab Semitic White marker-it is NOT present in Blacks-this makes Northern(Lower) Egypt a minimum of 84% Arab Semitic White, not a maximum of 20 %.
August 17, 2009 at 11:29 pm |
There is no evidence to suggests Queen Tiye was part nubian. You can’t just say she was Nubian just because she was black as all the evidence indicates the ancient egyptians were black and closer related to the nubians than anyone else.
September 26, 2009 at 3:14 am |
I don’t consider haplogroups as proof of race or subdivisions of race. Haplogroups do have specific geographic origin points, and are associated with certain races and subdivisions of race today, and did probably going back in time to 5,000 years but you cannot extrapolate too much further back in time. Haplogroup J1, M267 is common in Arabians, Levantine Middle Easterners and other people who spoke or speak Semitic languages like Jews. Language origins only track back so far. Going back to 10,000 years is iffy for any language family like Indo-European or the Semitic family within Afro-Asiatic. Either way, nothing can be proven, and making judgments about the origins of language groups and the races that spoke them is very controversial.
Haplogroup J1, M267, developed in Asia somewhere near the borders of modern Turkey, Iraq and Iran, possibly even, in the Caucasus region. Its parent haplogroup F is likewise Middle Eastern in origin. That is all you can say. You cannot prove what the peoples looked like who were J1, or F, or what languages they spoke thousands of years ago. Europeans who are J1 or F look unsurprisingly European. North Africans likewise look North African. Amharic Ethiopians who are J1 look Ethiopian. Arabians who are J1 look similar to other Arabians who may be R1a1, G or J2. The bearers of the haplogroups look like their nationality or ethnic group. It is likely the historic Sumerians were high in J1 but they did not speak an Afro-Asiatic or Indo-European language. They also called themselves the Black haired people. At that time in that part of the world, you would think all people were black haired. The ancient Egyptians spent a lot of time in Asia, outside the African continent, for political, economic and defense reasons. The ancient Egyptians also plundered the African interior, and NE Africa towards Somalia for resources and slaves.
Mitochrondrial haplogroup V is said to have developed in Europe, in Iberia during the LGM and that haplogroup moved into the rest of Europe after the LGM. It along with haplogroups H1 and H3, of similar age and origin in Europe, is found in North Africa, thought due to humans moving to Africa from Europe in Paleolithic and Neolithic times.
I would not use White with Semitic speaking Caucasoids. It is too charged with racism and the belief that Whites are only a subset of Europeans who live in Northwest Europe aka Nordics, Aryans and other BS terms. I suggest you drop the use of White. Most South Asians of dark hue are of Caucasoid type and not White.
Kmt means black. The term refers to soil, not people’s skin tone. The people of Egypt are the sons and daughters of the black, fertile soil as distinct to the barren red colored desert. Anyone who lives in a country with deserts can see the difference of black, fertile soil land and red, arid, infertile desert land. The old Egyptians painted themselves red as their belief was that they came from the desert region somewhere in modern Libya and that they wandered into the Kmt, the Black Land, their equivalent of Eden. They however never painted themselves as black. I would not say the Egyptians were White, I wouldn’t use the term of Europeans, I just would say they were Caucasoid of the North African variety but later mixed with various peoples found in NE Africa who were darker in skin tone. The racial origins of peoples in NE Africa, North African, the Sudan (the name means Black in Arabic) and Egypt is more complex than simple Caucasoid mixes with Eastern Negroid Africans.
September 26, 2009 at 6:48 am |
Most of what you said is accurate and covered in the article, however, haplogroup V originates in the Middle East-Arabs, Jews, and other Semitic Whites have all the haplomarkers of other Caucasians, plus a few more that make them Semitic, not, Indo European Aryan White-Blacks do not have Caucasian haplomarkers, neither do Semitic Whites have any Black haplomarkers. It can be safely assumed certain phenotypical(outward appearance) looksare produced by certain genes, so those are carried through heredity-basically people look like they did thousands of years ago.You change the gene, you change the appearance-without changing the gene, you get the same trait. So, yes haplomarkers are associated with certain looks within genetic variation. Since Arab Semitic Whites(ancient and modern Egyptians are Caucasian, a small percentage run the gamut of other Caucasian groups as far as skin, hair, and eye color go). Arabs, Jews, and other Semitic Whites have a mix of J1 and J2, so they would have similiar looks.R1a1 is found only in Caucasians so yes Arab Semitic Whites will have it to.Caucasoid means White/resembling White. Skeletal measurements , especially the skull, indicate Semitic peoples are White-this term is the official term Anthropologists use.Until the early 1800s, Semitic Whites were considered non White by skin tone(generally olive(golden brown) skin tone although, not Black. Anthropologists did skeletal measurements showing they are White, later confirmed by DNA. You may wish to consider Semitic people not White for your own personal reasons, but that is the OFFICIAL status.By most accounts, although Sumerians are considered non Semitic, they appear to be a homogenous mix of Black and White(Arab Semitic and Indo European Aryan White).Incidentally, the Amhara peoples are also another such homogenous mix of Black(Ethiopian) and Semitic White(both Arab and Jew). Yes, this gives them a more Caucasian look-this irritates many Afro centrists whom often deny the more Caucasian looks of peoples of Sudan(northern half Arab Semitic White, part of North Africa, 1/3 of Africa and Arab Semitic White), Ethiopia(Northern 1/3 is Arab Semitic White), and Somalia(Northern 1/3 is Arab Semitic White) is due to mixing with Arab Semitic Whites rather than genetic variation-all backed by DNA testing. The following are some helpful links:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amhara_people
http://strategyleader.org/profiles/amhara.htm
http://strategyleader.org/profiles/amhara.html
The ancient and modern Egyptians are Arab Semitic White, not the Black Nubians-you, of course may not consider them White based on their skin tone alone.The late Egyptian President Anwar Sadat was half Arab Semitic White father- Black Nubian-Sudanese-Kemitian mother-hr denied his Black heritage until shortly before his death.
October 5, 2009 at 4:37 pm |
The essence of the racial debate rest on one simple American Fact !!! People of color were not allowed to drink from the (white) water fountain!!!!!!!!! period. Now it seems to the so called minority’s WHITE Americans want to claim a share in ancient ROYALTY .. Just a thought.
October 5, 2009 at 4:57 pm |
Not so-genetic(DNA) and anthropological evidence gives every indication the ancient and modern Egyptians were Arab Semitic White, not, the Black Nubians. New evidence may change this. Do review the discussions.The majority of White Americans are of Indo European Aryan Whites, so in a snse, they can not lay claim to this. There is no doubt there was mixing of Arabs and Blacks- King Tut is an example as well as his grandmother Queen Tiye(Caucasian yellowish blond hair, X-rays showing Black skeletal structure).
February 19, 2010 at 8:15 pm |
This haplogroup is found mostly in Africa, mainly in the forms of its predominant sub-clades, E1b1a and E1b1b, with E1b1a being more common in Western Africa and Sub Saharan Africa, and E1b1b more common in Northern and Eastern Africa as well as being found also in Western Eurasia.
A smaller sub-clade, E1b1c, has also been defined, based upon the SNP mutation M329. Very few cases have been observed. Semino et al. (2004) found 2 Ethiopian Oromo in a study of >2400 individuals, including 78 Oromo. Cadenas et al. (2007) found 1 case in Qatar, out of 72 people tested there in that study.[1][2]
The paraclade, referred to as E1b1* or E-P2*, and including cases which are not in E1b1a, E1b1b or E1b1c, is also rare. It has mainly been observed in Ethiopia and in smaller amounts in Western Africa and Southern Africa. Semino et al. (2004) found it in 10.4% of 48 Ethiopian Amhara, 12.8% of 78 Ethiopian Jews, 1.9% of 53 South African Bantu, and 2.9% of 139 Senegalese.[1] Wood et al. (2005) have reported finding E1b1-P2(xE1b1a-P1, E1b1b1-M35), which should be resolved into E1b1*-P2, E1b1b*-M215, or E1b1c-M329, in 11% (1/9) of a sample of Oromo from Ethiopia, 11% (1/9) of a sample of Iraqw from Tanzania, 10% (2/20) of a mixed sample of speakers of various South Semitic languages from Ethiopia, 6% (1/18) of a sample of Amhara from Ethiopia, 3% (1/30) of a sample of Ewe from Ghana, 3% (1/32) of a sample of Fante from Ghana, and 3% (1/34) of a sample of Wolof from Gambia/Senegal.[3] Stefflova et al. 2009 report one individual out of a sample of 217 African American men from Philadelphia with haplogroup E1b1*.[4]
Cruciani et al. (2002) did not test for M329, but found the following which were either E1b1* or E1b1c: 18% of 22 Ethiopian Jews, 2% of 49 Mossi from Burkina Faso, 3% of 37 Rimaibe also from Burkina Faso, and 6% of 17 Fulbe from Cameroon.[5]
J1 genes in the j1 haploygroup produce phenotypically – produces white skin is a mutation Gene s1c24a5. Haplogroup J is found in greatest concentration in Southwest Asia. Outside of this region, haplogroup J has a presence in North Africa. It also has a moderate presence in Southern Europe (especially in central and southern Italy, Malta, Greece, and Albania), Central Asia, and South Asia, particularly in the form of its subclade J2 (J-M172). Haplogroup J is also found in Horn of Africa, particularly in the form of its subclade J1 (J-M267). Subclades J2a and J2a1b1 are found mostly in Greece, Anatolia, and southern Italy.
In North Africa, J1 first entered Ethiopia with the spread of Semitic speakers Eritrea (11%), Ethiopia (9%), Ethiopia-Amhara (33.3%). It spread later to North Africa in historic times (as identified by the motif YCAIIa22-YCAIIb22; Algerians 35.0%, Tunisians 31%), where it became something like a marker of the Semitic expansion in the early medieval period [19 – Semino et al. 2004 ]. J1 also seems to be found with high frequency in the northern parts of Sudan (Arabs 45%, Nubians 41%, Copts 39%, Beja 36%), and present with lower frequency in the region of Darfur (Masalit 6%, Fur 6%).[20] Haplogroup J1 may be found in as many as 20% of Egyptian males,[21 – Hisham Y. Hassan et al., “Y-Chromosome Variation Among Sudanese: Restricted Gene Flow, Concordance With Language, Geography, and History,” American Journal of Physical Anthropology (2008). J-12f2(xJ2-M172) in 46/102 Sudanese Arabs of the Gaalien, Meseria, and Arakien tribes, 16/39 Nubians, 13/33 Copts, 15/42 Beja, 2/32 Masalit, and 2/32 Fur.] with the frequency of this haplogroup tending to be comparatively high in the south of the country.[22 – Barbara Arredi, Estella S. Poloni, Silvia Paracchini, Tatiana Zerjal, Dahmani M. Fathallah, Mohamed Makrelouf, Vincenzo L. Pascali, Andrea Novelletto and Chris Tyler-Smith, “A Predominantly Neolithic Origin for Y-Chromosomal DNA Variation in North Africa,” American Journal of Human Genetics, Volume 75, Issue 2, August 2004, Pages 338-345. Haplogroup J-12f2(xJ2-M172) in 4/44 = 9.1% of a sample of Egyptians from the vicinity of Mansoura in northern Egypt, and 6/29 = 20.7% of a sample of Egyptians from the vicinity of Luxor in southern Egypt.
Click to access Hassan-Sudan-2008-AJPA.pdf
“ABSTRACT We study the major levels of Y-chromosome haplogroup variation in 15 Sudanese populations by typing major Y-haplogroups in 445 unrelated males representing the three linguistic families in Sudan. Our analysis shows Sudanese populations fall into haplogroups A – 16.9%, B – 7.9%, E – 34.4%, F – 3.1%, I – 1.3%, J – 22.5, K – 0.9,, and R 13% frequencies respectively.
Haplogroups A, B, and E occur mainly in Nilo-Saharan speaking groups including Nilotics, Fur, Borgu, and Masalit; whereas haplogroups F, I, J, K, and R are more frequent among Afro-Asiatic speaking groups including Arabs, Beja, Copts, and Hausa, and Niger-Congo speakers from the Fulani ethnic group.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1810519/ mtDNA :
“… several minority clusters provided valuable information. For instance, the one defined by 16309 was formed exclusively by East African sequences. The one identified by 16126 loss or by 16301 was centrally composed of Pakistani and Iranian sequences and had a derivative Yemeni sequence which pointed to some maternal gene flow to Yemen from those areas. The same could be said of the 16172 branch, although the gene flow was from Ethiopia to Saudi Arabia in this case. Ethiopia seemed to have been a secondary center of (preHV)1 expansions to the Near East, Arabian Peninsula, and northwest Africa, as could be deduced from branches defined by 16114 and the motif 16168–16266. Given the peripheral position of Saudi haplotypes, Saudi Arabia seemed to have acted more as receiver than a focus of (preHV)1 expansions with the exception of the 16304 clade. Radiation ages for the whole (preHV)1 haplogroup based on HVSI sequences were 18,993 ± 6,999 years; 9,624 ± 2,994 years for the 16355 ((preHV)1a1) sub-clade, and more recent for the 16304 subclade.”
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1810519/
“The majority of western Asia lineages found in the Arabian Peninsula had original Paleolithic and Neolithic expansions in the Near East [16] or in Caucasian and Caspian regions [26,51]. Most probably, these expansions reached the Arabian Peninsula as secondary waves when climatic conditions there or cultural improvements such as herding allowed colonization. The Arabian Peninsula has had a relatively low population density, and substantial demographic backflow to the Near East is improbable. However, as for M1, minor N North-African influences have been detected by the presence of an U6 lineage in our Saudi sample. It has been suggested that the rare U9 clade might be another interesting exception because it has been detected only in Pakistan [26], Ethiopia, and Yemen [19], and now in our Saudi sample. U9 occurs frequently only among the Makrani population in Pakistan, which is characterized by a large component of sub-Saharan African lineages, suggesting that U9 lineages in Pakistan might also have an African origin [19]. Makrani sub-Saharan Africa lineages have exact matches in Africa, which is compatible with a recent conection as the result of the East African slave trade [26].
However, the entire sequenced Ethiopian and Pakistani U9 lineages [37] are separated by a mean of 4.5 coding mutations from the common root, placing the split at Paleolithic times. Most probably, Ethiopia received its U9 lineages from the Arabian Peninsula that, in turn, received them from northern areas. The southern geographic distribution of U9 contrasts with the west-northern distribution U4, of its sister clade [52], but this is a pattern shared with other Paleolithic U radiations such as U2, U7 [32], or U8 [53] that have eastern and western branches. An original area west to India and east to the Capsian sea would be an equidistant point to conciliate these early U radiations [54].”
February 19, 2010 at 11:15 pm |
In short, you have basically confirmed what I have said – the J1 is an Arab Semitic White Haplomarker(Arabs and Jews both have J1 and J2, Arabs more of J1, the older, and, Jews, more of J2, the younger.. The E1b1b subclade occurs outside of the Black ethnic group in the White ethnic groups in Europe.Ethiopain Jews and the Amhara have signifigant Semitic( mainly Arab and some Jewish) admixture. J1 one generally produces olive(golden brown skin) in Semitic Whites – most misinformed would not call it white although Arabs and Jews.
are classified as Caucasian, genetically(NO admixture) and by anthropological measurements. !/3 of Ethiopia and 1/3 of Somalia, and 1/2 of Sudan – their Northern haves are Arab Semitic White – so many also are mixed expressing the J1 haplomarker and giving them the more Caucasian features well beyond genetic variation. Egypts populatin, Ancient and Modern has maintained a steady 65% – Haplotype V is the Arab haplotype and is present in 80% of the population(Arab Semitic White and Arab Semitic White/Black admixtures.Ethiopian Armies invaded Southern Yemen in ancient times and the Yemen Arab drove them back to Ethiopia, so again there is admixture there as well as back and forth flow from Arab North Africa. Near East is the Middle East – Arab portion – none of the data you have presented conflicts with what I have said. I am not certain if you were agreeing with, or, against what I have said, but at any rate, the information you presented, confirms what I hae said.
February 19, 2010 at 11:15 pm |
In short, you have basically confirmed what I have said – the J1 is an Arab Semitic White Haplomarker(Arabs and Jews both have J1 and J2, Arabs more of J1, the older, and, Jews, more of J2, the younger.. The E1b1b subclade occurs outside of the Black ethnic group in the White ethnic groups in Europe.Ethiopain Jews and the Amhara have signifigant Semitic( mainly Arab and some Jewish) admixture. J1 one generally produces olive(golden brown skin) in Semitic Whites – most misinformed would not call it white although Arabs and Jews.
are classified as Caucasian, genetically(NO admixture) and by anthropological measurements. !/3 of Ethiopia and 1/3 of Somalia, and 1/2 of Sudan – their Northern haves are Arab Semitic White – so many also are mixed expressing the J1 haplomarker and giving them the more Caucasian features well beyond genetic variation. Egypts populatin, Ancient and Modern has maintained a steady 65% – Haplotype V is the Arab haplotype and is present in 80% of the population(Arab Semitic White and Arab Semitic White/Black admixtures.Ethiopian Armies invaded Southern Yemen in ancient times and the Yemen Arab drove them back to Ethiopia, so again there is admixture there as well as back and forth flow from Arab North Africa. Near East is the Middle East – Arab portion – none of the data you have presented conflicts with what I have said. I am not certain if you were agreeing with, or, against what I have said, but at any rate, the information you presented, confirms what I have said.
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January 6, 2011 at 10:31 am |
I could care less what color they are. However, you can’t argue with the artifacts. You can easily tell by looking at Egyptian statues that they were not black but clearly Semitic. The above statues of Nubian and Egyptian military statues CLEARLY show the truth on this issue. I clearly see a bias by so many of the above posts, who bring in their own ideologies. The facts speak for themselves people…you can live in de-NILE (ha) or accept the proof!
January 10, 2011 at 4:59 pm |
Raman
The Acient and Modern Egyptians were Arab Semitic White – Black Nubians, free(paid) and slaves as well as free(paid) Jews were used as workers. Arabs and Blacks as well as tiny amounts of other groups mixed – Black women wer taken, sonsensually, as wives, or, raped, – many were sex slaves.Actuallystatues, and wall art show a spectrum of ethnic groups – Egypt probably has one of the MOST mixed group of people – their population has remained about 65% Arab Semitic White, 30% Black, Black/Arab Semitic White mixes, and about 5% all other mixes and ethnic groups – Before the Arabs invaded North Africa – there were indeed Black tribes there. There was the Ethiopian invasions into Yemen – and the Arabs then drove the Etiopians back taking North Africa, back again. Egypt is the bottle neck for Africa, the Middle East, Europe, and Asia, A wide mix is there.
June 4, 2011 at 6:03 am |
I’m no geneticist, but I thought the strait-red hair on Tut’s family mummy’s was a give away. Now, sometimes with age, ancient hair can turn red, but it won’t straiten out! This includes the facial hair as seen on the documentary.
June 5, 2011 at 11:02 pm |
Solar strand
Many things can affect hair color – oxidation, exposure to sunlight, aging, pigments in embalming, ethnicity, and so on. The cellular structure, and DNA does NOT change. Although 80% of Arab Semitic Whites have dark hair, skin, and, eyes – 20% run the gamut of Northern Europeans WITHOUT admixture of Ido European Aryan Whites, or, any other ethnic group. In fact, Indo European Aryan Whites and Arab(and the closely related Jews) share all the same haplomarkers, no other ethnic group has – Semitic peoples have four more haplomarkers Indo European Aryan Whites do NOT have – making Semites – Semitic Whites.
July 2, 2011 at 10:14 am |
I have often heard that ancient Egypt was racially mixed. I’ve also heard that there is truly no modern equivalent to what the ancient Egyptians were physically.
I have been studying Ancient Egypt for years and have often been quite confused when presented with modern depictions of the culture with either very pale Indo-European skin or pronounced Negroid features. I always said to myself: “But neither group entirely resembles their artwork!!.” I realize that the ancient Egyptians had many artistic conventions, but one would think that there would at least be some realism in the cultural body of artwork somewhere.
I always envisioned the ancent Egyptians as a kind of dark-skinned Caucasoid race when I was younger. I have since seen depictions of Black, (that is, Negroid, as opposed to simply dark-skinned )people, in Egyptian artwork, and they are definitely different in both skin tone and facial features than what I have viewed as the “general” ancient Egyptian population. Several artistic examples separting the traditionally “Black” Nubians from Egyptians can be found at the Oriental Institute in Chicago here: http://oi.uchicago.edu/museum/nubia/huy.html as opposed to the funeral stela here: https://oi.uchicago.edu/i/highlights/OIM_1351_c.gif
The racial mix would certainly explain why some of the statues and drawings I’ve seen have more “Black” features as opposed to more “White” features. Your extensive references to genetic markers are very convincing.
The reason that I have been looking hard for an answer is that I’m a fiction writer and one of my planned stories involves ancient Egyptian characters. As I am a very visual person, I was looking for an accurate way to physically describe them. The Berber people of Northern Africa have mixed Black and Semitic White heritage. Whould it be accurte to look at them as a kind of “visual estimate”, as it were, of ancient Egyptians? (Keeping in mind, of course, that there would be some that were darker, some that were lighter, and some that looked far more “Black” in facial features amongst the general poupulation.)
September 16, 2011 at 7:44 pm |
The Ancient Egyptians were Arab Semitic White – dark Caucasian, NOT the Black Nubians, whom did rule from roughly, about 800 – 700 B.C., and, NOT the Indo European Aryan Whites – Greeks, Turks, Persian, whom ruled for a broken up period of about another 900 years – The Arabs ruled for the remainder.
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September 14, 2011 at 9:37 pm |
It’s interesting how the last people on the planet to actually join the civilized world always try to write/rewrite everyone else’s history.
We are all AFRICAN whether you want to accept it or not. So called “Egyptians” included….
Respect your elders by honoring your mothers and fathers….
September 16, 2011 at 7:40 pm |
Original Man
But NOT all Africans are Black, nor, are all peoples descended from Blacks, but from a common ancestor. In FACT, Oriental Asian haplomarker M is OLDER than any found in Africa – translation – “Out of Africa” is still a theory, which may even be incorrect. I favor the five ethnic groups starting on different continents at the same time – that’s the older theory, and, seems, better to fit the facts.
February 24, 2012 at 12:09 am |
Seems like El bases all of his arguments off of pure emotion. No facts. I read through most of his rants and ALL CAPS yelling, misspelled words and so forth. This is the same strategy they use when they try to get a free dinner while eating out. I will just say this; if you look at the way sub-Saharan Africans behave worldwide, one can quickly see there is NO WAY these people could have EVER built the pyramids or had any other sophisticated society. Look…we are in 2012 and they still live in mud huts. Look at any inner city in the USA. Nature is correct. El?? You can rob a liquor store but you can’t rob DNA. Think about it.
February 28, 2012 at 1:58 pm |
Hussein – the sub saharans had advanced tribes of their own – Nok had advanced agricultural techniques, and, metal works, the Dogan had advanced astronomical data, the Ta Seti taught the Ancient Egyptians, the hieroglyphs – no need to put down one culture at the expense of another.
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September 12, 2013 at 6:30 pm |
Naturescorner1: I cant beliveve you went to all the trouble and length to write such uneducated, bigot 16th century diatribe. Your comments, theories and opinions are so meaningless they deserve not to be dignified with a waste of breath (or keyboard) in the 21st century. Get a life – Egyptians are, and have always been black from ancient times, no matter how many hundreds of variations of black or light skin you come up with. The same goes for the whole bible being the record and history of ancient black people with the excpetion of Roman colonisers.
September 13, 2013 at 1:52 am |
Rebone Makgato
The Nubian Blacks were the lower southwest Corner of upper Egypt – some Nubians ruled Egypt from 800 – 700 BC – roughly.Preliminary tests show King Tut to be Caucasian – Blacks, and Semitic Whites are two different ethnic groups – Blacks residing in Africa, Semitic Whites in the Middle East – of course after the Black Ethiopians attacked – spreading to the Levant – the Semitic White Arabs drove them back to Ethiopia, taking North Africa hence, North Africa is part of the Middle East – the war in Sudan was over this. I quoted many experts as well as experts in the dialogue afterwards – you have presented a very Afrocentric view. tell me – does Jamie Far, Arab American, look like he is in the same ethnic group as Bill Cosby??? Surely NOT.I suggest you examine facts, since YOU have NOT presnted any.
September 19, 2013 at 5:03 am |
Natures Corner 1, you seem to be well versed with the history / origin of Sub-Sahara Africa people, could you please throw some light on the issues of “Buried cities of Zimbabwe”, who do you think were behind the construction of those cities, please?
September 19, 2013 at 8:49 am |
Start with this Google search – there is a wealth of information on the lost cities.: https://www.google.com/search?q=lost+cities+of+Zimbabwe&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a&channel=fflb
November 5, 2015 at 7:28 pm |
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WERE THE ANCIENT EGYPTIANS BLACK OR WHITE? |
March 25, 2016 at 7:45 pm |
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July 4, 2016 at 8:03 pm |
One crazy notion that the melanocentrists (I don’t use “afrocentrist” any more, as “African” and “black” are not synonymous) in the above thread put forward is that American perceptions of blackness are necessarily valid and can be extrapolated to ancient history and the Old World.
In point of fact, modern American perceptions of blackness are derived from 19th Century white supremacists, who instituted the so-called “one-drop rule” as part of an effort to isolate a perceivedly all-white gene pool. These supremacists or segregationists didn’t think they were being scientifically accurate; their “anthropology” was politically and not scientifically motivated. They established a criterion useful in forbidding anyone with ANY black ancestry to marry and reproduce with whites. The anti-miscegenation laws could thus have a total application inasmuch as authorities could tell anyone with even “one drop” of black blood to limit his or her marital options to black and mixed-race persons.
Before this Jim Crow racial classification was popularized, people of mixed race were not called blacks. They were variously termed mulattos, quadroons (quarter-black), octoroons (eighth-black), high yaller, etc. Nor did this more rational and ethnologically intelligent tendency completely die out, especially in certain parts of the country.
Indeed, it has not been the universal tendency to categorize black-white mixed-race people as black. In Europe the older perceptions lingered, while in South Africa there were four main racial categories: White, Black, Asian/indian and Colored–the latter signifying people of MIXED black and white race, not black per se as the word came to mean in the USA, thanks to Jim Crow racial classification.
Obviously, Jim Crow “science” is horrendously UNscientific and illogical, and runs afoul of both phenotypic and DNA realities. And it leads us to palpable absurdities like classifying as black such people as Maria Carey, Prince, Adam Clayton Powell, Thurgood Marshall, etc. There’s a page in the Internet asking “Do you consider Maria Carey a black woman?” LOL!!! Just asking the question implies she is not black. If she were, a glance would confirm it. Who ever asked whether Michael Jordan was black after seeing him?!
None of this bothers the melanocentrists, however. They seem to think “White supremacists used this classification to further their ends–why shouldn’t we?” You see, by means of the Jim Crow criterion they suppose they can claim anyone around the world–and in any epoch–who had or MAY have had some black ancestry, ignoring the rest of the ancestry, tho in fact all people are the product of their TOTAL heritage, not just that part of it which some for political reasons want to accentuate to the exclusion of all else. This is but one of the shenanigans suggesting a want of intellectual integrity in melanocentrism.
It’s like “Who cares if it’s bull? As long as people accept it we can get mileage out of it…. We can claim whole civilizations as ‘us.'”